oiling and magging

Raaneip

Member
eventually all of this discussion must somehow relate to practical casting and fishing. the reason for my original question is due to an experience I had during late November last year at pulpit rock (preekstoel), glenmore beach kzn south coast. one of my favorite places on earth. the sea during that time was crystal clear, which made daytime fishing very difficult.
on the attached image, from google earth history, preekstoel is at the red dot. the red line closer to the coast is my approximate casting reach with straight eight, 1.2mm leader and 0.55 line. that is to say where i can measure it, thus over grass. it definitely is shorter at the coast on the rocks. on a regular basis i could see the huge shapes of some big sharks, i think, moving behind the submerged rocks close to preekstoel, approximately where the outer red line is. good polirization sunglasses makes a big difference. due to the ultra clear water catching baitfish was difficult. I tried to swim all the rockfish I caught (caranteen, rock bream, bronze bream), but none reached the distance. understandable. as slide bait I used whole mackerel with its gills and stomach cut, inside an 'inside out' hammered squid. lots of nice juices flowing out. hoping the smell would reach the target, but no success. I did pick up three smaller +- 10 kg black tips but didn't have the guts to swim them.

it seems that the bigger shapes would not move over the submerged rocks (reef) closer to the rocks I was casting from.

so being a clear cut rock and surf guy, my conclusion is that I must improve my casting distance. i think my equipment is up to the task, daiwa saltist xtra heavy surf rod with talica 25, but (doubt sets in) am i.

to be honest, my over the grass casting distance is 120 to 130 m, measured. my mango trees are spaced exactly 4m * 7m, counting them i cant bluff myself.

I tried various casting techniques including john holden's fishing pendulum, brighton and otg( both impractical on the rocks and when wading), hatteras or sa pendulum, but that remains my max distance. with this result I stick to my overhead thump. same result with less swinging lead around.

so, maybe I must tweak my equipment. all the bits might add up to greater distance.

my train of thought was (is) that if I lessen the standing inertia of the heavy spool with light oil, control the flight with mags ( to prevent loose spools of line) and control the end with my thumb I might get further. the mags are installed, very good control of the flight. spool is braked and stopped dead with thumb during end flight. or maybe all this analysis paralysis should just get me to the gym.

all input this far and coming is greatly appreciated.
 

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kitefisher

Sealiner
Raaneip,I am elated to see that I am not the only one doing measurements to certain points on Google Earth.

The Talica is a brilliant reel and casts very well for the type and size of reel.Do not for a moment underestimate a 120-130 meter cast with .55mm mainline on your set-up.However, all of it is of no avail if you cannot reach your intended target.The Talica's line capacity makes for some serious added weight to the spool and thus slower start-up speed.Its weight may have the spool still having huge amounts of momentum towards the end of the cast.

A simple solution would be to switch to something like a magged Grandwave 40 loaded with say .45mm mainline when the situation arises again.This could instantaneously add perhaps 20 meters to your cast. Another alternative may be to downsize the Talica mainline from .55mm to .50mm and perhaps gain between 5 and 10 meters(guestimate).

Both of these options may defeat the object,although some big fish have been caught on .50mm mainline.

Klip in die bos. Your particular reel may be extra safe.In other words you may be able to play around with magnet polarity ,or numbers,or distance away from outer perimeter of spool.All of this may apply less braking during the initial stages of your cast which could be what is holding your distances consistent irrespective of style of casting used.

I am not implying that one cast is better than another,but if you get the same result with virtually each and every different style,it may be an overtly ''safe'' reel.

Like mentioned before,130 meters,even on flat ground is not to be scoffed at,but there may just be another 10-20 meters in your reel (without the gym-work)

Terloops,Ja ek is bekend met Knolskrywer (Le Roux)



;);)
 

Raaneip

Member
I have a nasty tendency to have reel thingies ( like clicker spring and pin in the tn50 under the star when you unscrew it) fly all over the place. the tn50 drag clicker pin and spring took me a couple of days to find. so, is there any parts with a tendency to fly around when stripping the talica to wash and oil the three spool bearings? i found this tut for the talica 8:
https://www.google.co.za/amp/s/gasp...ing-talica-8ii-spool-bearing-replacement/amp/

can I follow this for the talica 50?
 

Cuban Cigar

Sealiner
kitefisher wrote:
Raaneip,I am elated to see that I am not the only one doing measurements to certain points on Google Earth.

The Talica is a brilliant reel and casts very well for the type and size of reel.Do not for a moment underestimate a 120-130 meter cast with .55mm mainline on your set-up.However, all of it is of no avail if you cannot reach your intended target.The Talica's line capacity makes for some serious added weight to the spool and thus slower start-up speed.Its weight may have the spool still having huge amounts of momentum towards the end of the cast.

A simple solution would be to switch to something like a magged Grandwave 40 loaded with say .45mm mainline when the situation arises again.This could instantaneously add perhaps 20 meters to your cast. Another alternative may be to downsize the Talica mainline from .55mm to .50mm and perhaps gain between 5 and 10 meters(guestimate).

Both of these options may defeat the object,although some big fish have been caught on .50mm mainline.

Klip in die bos. Your particular reel may be extra safe.In other words you may be able to play around with magnet polarity ,or numbers,or distance away from outer perimeter of spool.All of this may apply less braking during the initial stages of your cast which could be what is holding your distances consistent irrespective of style of casting used.

I am not implying that one cast is better than another,but if you get the same result with virtually each and every different style,it may be an overtly ''safe'' reel.

Like mentioned before,130 meters,even on flat ground is not to be scoffed at,but there may just be another 10-20 meters in your reel (without the gym-work)

Terloops,Ja ek is bekend met Knolskrywer (Le Roux)



;);)
The MAG-IT Magnetic Cast Control System for the Talica 16/20/25 II 2-speed reels, come with four full size and four slimline magnets .... you just add or take away a slimline magnet at a time, to have small increments for final fine-tuning .... pic will follow !
 

kitefisher

Sealiner
Cuban that is a very neat job.It allows for removing mags as per needed,and obviously switching polarity on the mags will be a song.Perhaps you can advise Raaneip as to checking and changing polarity's to give him slightly less mag. Or Raaneip can simply remove one magnet and see if there is any difference.

If the Talica has the following set-up then it would be a song
'''The MAG-IT Magnetic Cast Control System for the Talica 16/20/25 II 2-speed reels, come with four full size and four slimline magnets .... you just add or take away a slimline magnet at a time, to have small increments for final fine-tuning ''''unquote

Raaneip,ek kan ongelukkig nie help met die Talica se uitmekaarhaal en terugsit gedeelte nie.Maar ek sal voorstel dat jy nie n dunner viskositeit gebruik as iets soos EP140 Gear-oil gebruik om te eksperimenteer.(Jy mag dalk van dit hê iewers in n stoor.)3-5 Druppels gaan nie jou ''start-up inertia' wesenlik beinvloed op so n swaar spoel nie.Ek vermoed jy is ge-''over-mag''

Strongs
 

Cuban Cigar

Sealiner
As jy mooi op die foto kyk, sal jy sien, dat die "stacs" magnete, addisioneel, ook effe nader of verder van die buiteradius af, geskuif kan word, wat natuurlik ook 'n spoed verskil maak !

Daar is 'n groot "range" van verstelbaarheid en ek verkies die "stacs" met alternatiwe polariteit langs mekaar, vir maksimum stabiliteit op die "magplate", sodat niks kan roer, selfs al kry die katrol 'n harde stamp of val hy !
 

kitefisher

Sealiner
'''As jy mooi op die foto kyk, sal jy sien, dat die "stacs" magnete, addisioneel, ook effe nader of verder van die buiteradius af, geskuif kan word, wat natuurlik ook 'n spoed verskil maak !

Daar is 'n groot "range" van verstelbaarheid en ek verkies die "stacs" met alternatiwe polariteit langs mekaar, vir maksimum stabiliteit op die "magplate", sodat niks kan roer, selfs al kry die katrol 'n harde stamp of val hy !'''


Uitstekende ontwerp. n Millimeter of twee nader of verder vanaf die middel-punt met 4 magnete ,kan n wereld se verskil maak.
 

Raaneip

Member
so did a couple practice casts late yesterday afternoon.
when all the orange line is of the reel in the attached image, it will be 150m, up to over 130 now.

the reel is tuned with reelfast on the bearings.
the mag setup might seem extremely overmagged.
one thick, then thick with two thins, one thick, one thick with two thins.
arranged with alternative polarities right on the edge of the magplate.
this setup gives me the 10sec hand spin time as in the previous video.

any less magging and i find that the reel starts throwing loops while the sinker is still in the climbing fase of its flight. with the left side of the spool being moved under the left side of the reel frame in freespool, being a righthand caster I now switch hanfs to lightly feather the spool rim on the right side. not an ideal situation.
i dont mind feathering the spool during the end part of the sinker flight - on the drop down. but with the full spool i have to have enough line off the reel to get my thumb on the spool rim for feathering.

i know cuban cigar is an advocate of setting up the reel with no loose spools during the cast which implies even more magging, am i right?

this is definately an improvement.

us inlanders ( binnelanners ) must somehow keep the call of the rithmic moving water at bay, with things like this, to prevent us from going insane.

thanks again for all the feedback.
 

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Cuban Cigar

Sealiner
My experience (based on my own casting of many different reel/rod/sinkerweightset ups AND that of a few thousand anglers using the MAG-IT), is that under practical fishing conditions, it is better for most anglers, to rather have the reel set up slightly too conservatively, than slightly too fast(greedy), for both "safety" and distance results.

Test casting results, seems to yield better average and consistent distance, from a slightly too slow reel, that you can cast flat-out and never touch the spool, than from a slightly too fast reel, that you end up casting gingerly, controlling by thumb and because it bites you from time to time, not loading the rod fully ...

Others might feel differently ???
 

kitefisher

Sealiner
Cuban Cigar wrote:
My experience (based on my own casting of many different reel/rod/sinkerweightset ups AND that of a few thousand anglers using the MAG-IT), is that under practical fishing conditions, it is better for most anglers, to rather have the reel set up slightly too conservatively, than slightly too fast(greedy), for both "safety" and distance results.

Test casting results, seems to yield better average and consistent distance, from a slightly too slow reel, that you can cast flat-out and never touch the spool, than from a slightly too fast reel, that you end up casting gingerly, controlling by thumb and because it bites you from time to time, not loading the rod fully ...

Others might feel differently ???


Couldn't agree more. Makes perfect sense.


Raaneip: Dankie vir die moeite met die video's dis great. As jy voel jy is redelik op die limiet van n 'overwind' met hierdie huidige Mag-settings ,sal ek die volgende eksperiment voorstel.(los magnete net soos hulle is)

Die spin-tyd sonder magnete is besonder hoog,wat beteken dat die katrol waarskynlik goed gebalanseerd is,en dat alle kontak-punte vry is van onnodige wrywing.

Ongelukkig met die eksperimentering moet jy slegs een ding per keer verander sodat jy die verskil in resultaat(geen resultaat) defnitief kan aanteken.

In hierdie geval sal ek n bietjie dikker olie aanbeveel wat die geen-magneet spintyd omtrent halveer. Jy behoort agtertekom dat die spintyd van n katrol wat erg vry loop soos joune,en dan dmv olie verminder word,nie n wesenlike impak het op die afstand wat dit werp nie.

Inteendeel,as die olie help om die twee of drie onnodige oortollige ''coils'' wat die katrol mag gooi te elimineer.Sal dit heelwaarskynlik selfs n bietjie verder gooi.
Die ideaal is dat jy geensins aan die spoel moet raak tydens sinker-vlug nie.Die rede is dat sodra jy ''energie'/'momentum'' van die vlug wegneem,dit tog nie weer ''vervang'' kan word nie.

Sometimes,slow is fast/far.

p.s probeer daai EP 140,nie omdat ek n proponent van die spesifieke olie vir hengel/katrol-doeleindes is nie,maar bloot vanweê die viskositeit.
 

Raaneip

Member
I can kick myself you know where for not making similar videos before I washed out the ghries and reoiled the bearings. If I remember correctly the unmagged spintime with ghries was around 30 sec and the magged around 10 sec. with this I start to think that yes oil with this size reel when magged has very little effect. although I agree with your reasoning kingfisher, This is what I intend to do:

Ill first play with the mags. then change oil as you suggested. maybe two more oils and ghries and finetune mags in every case. recording everything all the way(on paper)(om te weet is om te meet).

I think one of the most important comments is that of cuban cigar being:
real fishing conditions.
My improvisation for real fishing conditions is displayed in the attached image, more air resistance simulating wind and bait. immediately subtract 20m from my casting distance.
 

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kitefisher

Sealiner
Raaneip. As long as you use the same standard to test,be it a hockey-ball or sinker,then your results should be fairly consistent.

The use of oil as a control-mechanism ,on its own or in conjunction with magnets and other methods must not be underestimated. There is a reason why guys took the trouble to make that viscosity chart that you posted.Granted the impact is more severe on smaller lighter-spooled reels,but nonetheless significant.

The difference between a reel slowed down to say 20 second spintime without magnets via grease versus oil is as follows.:

Grease: is of a more constant viscosity,(and I am finding this hard to explain).In other words if the viscosity is 140 then it applies that 140 ''friction''(for lack of a better word) throughout the whole cast. The amount of friction remains the same.


Oil: Oil changes viscosity due to temperature changes but lets assume the temperature is constant and the viscosity is 140 .During the cast the oil which is more pliable(vloeibaar) than grease may apply the same 140 viscosity start-up inertia than the grease would.But,(and here is the big difference),because of it's pliability(vloeibaarheid) it gets shoved out of the way by the ball-racers inside the bearings.
The oil then literally gets pushed aginst the inside of the outside of the bearing .Now it's effect is lessened because of the above.(so the spool runs more free) ,until such time in the cast that the centrifugal forces are lessened and the oil start seeping back between the ball-racers and starts applying more and more ''friction''(back to the 140 viscosity friction) which controls the spool-speed as the sinker looses momentum.

Hope it makes sense,as re-reading it to myself,I have my doubts ,bwahahahaha
 

kitefisher

Sealiner
Raaneip wrote:
fully makes sense to me.
will begin with what you suggested.

Dankie tog,dit klink vir my Grieks ,lol.

ps. Unfortunately you will have to repeat the process of cleaning out the bearings again with Zippo Lighter fluid or similar.Also important is to give the bearings a 10 minute or so drying time for the fluid to evaporate.Then apply the thicker oil by using something like .80mm leader line .

Dunk the first 2 centimeters of the leader into the desired oil and then let it drop into the gaps of the shields(if shielded bearing)of the bearing . 5 or 6 drops should be enough to seep through the bearing onto a piece of toilet-paper below which indicates that the oil has seeped through.

A few light turns of the bearing manipulated with your fingers should then distribute the oil enough for re-fitment.

Tedious,but it becomes fun after a year or three

;);););)Lekker naweek.
 
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