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The shark Tax problem in KZN South Africa  Rate Topic 
 
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 Posted: Thu Mar 14th, 2019 02:18 pm
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tubs the sea saver
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Mana: 
mrcricket wrote:
yacoob wrote:
Ok, my take on it is that the sharks have the right to tax us as much as they want to. It's their domain.

We have a similar , if not less frequent situation at langebaan lagoon when fishing for cob at night. I know the feeling, been there, done that, and will gladly still be doing it as long as i'm allowed to. All this means is that i have to outsmart it. If sharkey wins, tough.....
In falsebay we have the opposite problem. The great whites we used to see at our fishing grounds have all but disappeared. We had a few orca's here and during that time, a few GW's washed up on our shores with their livers bitten out. It seems, and i could be very wrong.... that since the GW population have decreased, the seal and penguin population exploded. Now they're decimating the fish stocks. I believe they cause a lot more damage to our eco system than sharks can.



Spot on. Since you’re in sharks domain,you get taxed. Take it on the chin like a man and keep fishing.


So heres the bigger issue, a good example is Geelbek which are very migratory spending time in the cape and then move up the KZN coast line, the daily limit is 2 pp per day. Now if you catch 10 geelbek and 8 get taxed it effectively means you have taken out 10 and therefore you are over the limit. I dont when last we have good number of these fish and anglers dont realize that Taxed fish are part of their quota.

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 Posted: Fri Mar 15th, 2019 06:16 am
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yacoob
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tubs the sea saver wrote:
mrcricket wrote:
yacoob wrote:
Ok, my take on it is that the sharks have the right to tax us as much as they want to. It's their domain.

We have a similar , if not less frequent situation at langebaan lagoon when fishing for cob at night. I know the feeling, been there, done that, and will gladly still be doing it as long as i'm allowed to. All this means is that i have to outsmart it. If sharkey wins, tough.....
In falsebay we have the opposite problem. The great whites we used to see at our fishing grounds have all but disappeared. We had a few orca's here and during that time, a few GW's washed up on our shores with their livers bitten out. It seems, and i could be very wrong.... that since the GW population have decreased, the seal and penguin population exploded. Now they're decimating the fish stocks. I believe they cause a lot more damage to our eco system than sharks can.



Spot on. Since you’re in sharks domain,you get taxed. Take it on the chin like a man and keep fishing.


So heres the bigger issue, a good example is Geelbek which are very migratory spending time in the cape and then move up the KZN coast line, the daily limit is 2 pp per day. Now if you catch 10 geelbek and 8 get taxed it effectively means you have taken out 10 and therefore you are over the limit. I dont when last we have good number of these fish and anglers dont realize that Taxed fish are part of their quota.


Heya tubs, I respectfully beg to differ. daily quota's are only applicable to species in your possession. if it was a you say, then every hook up should form part of the quota ;)

Last edited on Fri Mar 15th, 2019 06:17 am by yacoob

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 Posted: Fri Mar 15th, 2019 06:20 am
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yacoob
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Pylstert wrote:
yacoob wrote: With all due respect, I dont give a $#!% what the researchers say. I've been fishing particular areas of false bay for the last 10 years. I could almost predict great white sightings to my crew and, I could even identify a few of them. For the last few years, the decline in great whites and the increase in the seal AND penguin population is crystal clear to me, my buddies and other boaters who frequent Falsebay. I'm NOT a keyboard fisherman, I go out enough times to know my areas very well. We find seals and penguins where we never did before. It doesn't bother me in the least because as i said in my 1st post, its their domain. If i want the fish, I put in the effort and the time, and if sharkey wins, i take it on the chin and try again.


Go and count the seals and penguins then and tell the researchers they are wrong. They must be spending too much time on keyboards instead of spending days and years counting penguins and seals, you don't think it is possible that seal and penguin colonies have shifted and you just by chance see more where fish? Overall, they have declined though. You also have to wonder what the octopus fishery has on the seals of False Bay because they eat a lot of octopus and these are now being harvested commercially.


Pylstert... My post was not directed AT you but rather in a general sense, however, I agree that worldwide seal and penguin populations are being decimated, but in case you missed it, I was referring specifically to Falsebay. Thats it. Klaar gepraat;)

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 Posted: Fri Mar 15th, 2019 07:21 am
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Pylstert
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yacoob wrote: Pylstert wrote:
yacoob wrote: With all due respect, I dont give a $#!% what the researchers say. I've been fishing particular areas of false bay for the last 10 years. I could almost predict great white sightings to my crew and, I could even identify a few of them. For the last few years, the decline in great whites and the increase in the seal AND penguin population is crystal clear to me, my buddies and other boaters who frequent Falsebay. I'm NOT a keyboard fisherman, I go out enough times to know my areas very well. We find seals and penguins where we never did before. It doesn't bother me in the least because as i said in my 1st post, its their domain. If i want the fish, I put in the effort and the time, and if sharkey wins, i take it on the chin and try again.


Go and count the seals and penguins then and tell the researchers they are wrong. They must be spending too much time on keyboards instead of spending days and years counting penguins and seals, you don't think it is possible that seal and penguin colonies have shifted and you just by chance see more where fish? Overall, they have declined though. You also have to wonder what the octopus fishery has on the seals of False Bay because they eat a lot of octopus and these are now being harvested commercially.


Pylstert... My post was not directed AT you but rather in a general sense, however, I agree that worldwide seal and penguin populations are being decimated, but in case you missed it, I was referring specifically to Falsebay. Thats it. Klaar gepraat;)

((goodp_ reg so meer visvang en minder praat :-) :-) totally agree :-) :-)

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 Posted: Fri Mar 15th, 2019 02:55 pm
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tubs the sea saver
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yacoob wrote:
tubs the sea saver wrote:
mrcricket wrote:
yacoob wrote:
Ok, my take on it is that the sharks have the right to tax us as much as they want to. It's their domain.

We have a similar , if not less frequent situation at langebaan lagoon when fishing for cob at night. I know the feeling, been there, done that, and will gladly still be doing it as long as i'm allowed to. All this means is that i have to outsmart it. If sharkey wins, tough.....
In falsebay we have the opposite problem. The great whites we used to see at our fishing grounds have all but disappeared. We had a few orca's here and during that time, a few GW's washed up on our shores with their livers bitten out. It seems, and i could be very wrong.... that since the GW population have decreased, the seal and penguin population exploded. Now they're decimating the fish stocks. I believe they cause a lot more damage to our eco system than sharks can.



Spot on. Since you’re in sharks domain,you get taxed. Take it on the chin like a man and keep fishing.


So heres the bigger issue, a good example is Geelbek which are very migratory spending time in the cape and then move up the KZN coast line, the daily limit is 2 pp per day. Now if you catch 10 geelbek and 8 get taxed it effectively means you have taken out 10 and therefore you are over the limit. I dont when last we have good number of these fish and anglers dont realize that Taxed fish are part of their quota.


Heya tubs, I respectfully beg to differ. daily quota's are only applicable to species in your possession. if it was a you say, then every hook up should form part of the quota ;)


Hey man, no worries but think of it this way, your quota is what you kill and take home right, so if 10 are killed because of your actions shouldn't that count?

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 Posted: Sat Mar 16th, 2019 09:04 am
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nantes
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ok think of it this way . your bagglimit is one shark per day . that includes sandies and rays . so if you swim a livebait and you get picked up that means you have taken 2 and you are over your bagg limit . and then you are only allowed to swim one bait a day .

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 Posted: Sat Mar 16th, 2019 09:59 am
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Dr halibut hoffman
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That's an interesting angle...If you were correct, it would mean that using a "shark" as a livebait or sandie etc. as a bait, caught on that day would actually be illegal. Actually the "bag limit" is not a daily limit but a "in your possession" limit, at home or in storage or on person, either or. Just checked the regulations and you are correct in terms of "daily bag limit of one", the wording of our regulations sounds like it is a daily limit but is not. It is a bag limit on any one day, meaning at any given time. I have queried this in the past with my legal eagle friends and that was their opinion. If it were not, one could just sidestep any regulation by claiming that what was in your possession was caught on many different days but now just stored together. The regulators would have closed that loophole with their wording of the law.

"Species not mentioned in either of these lists have a bag limit of ten provided that sharks, rays, skates or chimaeras (Class Chondrichthyes) have a bag limit
of one and rockcods (Family Serranidae) have a bag limit of five (5)."
"No person (or recreational fisher) may on any one day land or be in possession of more than the species-specific bag limits as indicated in
this species list”."
"On any one day" and "or be in possession of" basically means at any one time you cannot have more than the bag limit altogether irrespective of where it is stored. So not a limit "per day" at all.. but an accumulative limit, in your possession, on any one day.

So it would not matter actually if the shark as bait was caught that day or not. It would depend on whether one could successfully argue that the first shark in possession is not actually still in your possession when it has been sent back out with hooks attached and the second shark picks it up, and depend also on when that shark picks up your bait, on at what point it is actually " in your possession". So in that case using a "shark" as bait would be illegal, if you are correct in saying that bag limit is one (I dont fish for sharks so I would not know), unless one can successfully argue that once thrown out attached to your line with hooks, it is not anymore in your possession and you can argue that the shark that eats the bait is only in your possession once landed. If you land him and he barfs up your bait, or it is still attached to your line, and an inspector is looking over your shoulder, you are in k@k! hahaha

Actually with the wording being "on any one day...land..or be in possession of" it would have to be a very difficult argument to win. One would have to catch the swimbait the day before, like at 11:55 PM, and send it out just before 12PM and hook a shark after that sometime early in the morning, AND have the bait come off the hook and not be swallowed at the time off hookup. and so only have one shark in your possession or landed on any one day. Its a difficult one, so for most situations using a shark, ray or sand shark as bait, live or dead, to catch another is illegal..interesting.

I guess this is all some way of regulating what are often slow growing, live bearing and globally endangered species. There is a complete disparity on recreational regulations and what is done commercially/industrially @ sea with people given license to longline the same slow growing and slow to reproduce species targeted by the shore guys, enmass, close inshore to the shore fishing spots. Nevermind sharknets which were already known in late 90's to be increasing average size and numbers of duskies and it was already then thought that later attacks attributed to GW's in natal were actually giant duskies. But there is no direction from government and the academics are not involved in decision making so thats where we are at.
Sharks are smart, and also pretty dumb.. Blue sharks, who's numbers are plummeting around the world, must be one of the most stupid creatures on earth..but bleed out a tuna and it doesn't take 5mins for a bunch of them to amass for a free meal from the blood in the water, out from a seemingly empty desert of ocean. You can lift them half out the water, carefully, and shake em about, with a gaff in the tail lobe and they still won't leave you alone..we have had sharks that are hooked see another bait in the vicinity, make a beeline against drag and chow that bait too, and hook both of us, had that happen with blues and bronzies, while fishing for edibles.. pretty much as doff as they come.
No reason to kill them though..anyway just some thoughts..

nantes wrote: ok think of it this way . your bagglimit is one shark per day . that includes sandies and rays . so if you swim a livebait and you get picked up that means you have taken 2 and you are over your bagg limit . and then you are only allowed to swim one bait a day .

Last edited on Sat Mar 16th, 2019 10:52 am by Dr halibut hoffman

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 Posted: Sat Mar 16th, 2019 10:33 am
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DJP
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nantes wrote:
ok think of it this way . your bagglimit is one shark per day . that includes sandies and rays . so if you swim a livebait and you get picked up that means you have taken 2 and you are over your bagg limit . and then you are only allowed to swim one bait a day .

That is actually how it works, that's why it's a daily bag limit. If you are taking a shark out and putting it back as a swimbait you have taken that shark, it will either be eaten or die (even if you "release" it afterwards).

I'm however not in agreement with the comment about taxing of fish although from an ethical perspective one could consider a taxed fish as part of the limit, from a legal perspective I think you would be hard pressed to prove the point.

Last edited on Sat Mar 16th, 2019 10:41 am by DJP

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 Posted: Mon Mar 18th, 2019 12:32 pm
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Charlie-B
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This is a difficult one, but like the saying goes: 'Walk in the lion's den, be expected to be mauled by a lion!"
I've recently been luck enough to have been able to fish in the Breede river for the past 3 years on a fairly regular basis. In the 3 years I've noticed a sharp decline in edible fish coming out, but over the summer period huge rumblings of fish been taxed by the Zambies. These okes are trained !!!! They will lie in wait and as soon as your fish is about to be landed, bang its gone. Can't remember the estimated BIG cob that were taxed this year, but it was a scary number. Someone mentioned it earlier, there has never been an attack on a human, but hey, never sat never. I crap myself every time I pump prawns in waist high water.
Back in home waters, Langebaan, the bronzies are also a huge pain in the arse as well as the increased seal population. Same story with the bronzies, they will wait until your cob,elf or yellowtail is almost in the boat before they come along and help themselves. You can run your motors, clap your hands, shout and scream, nothing helps. Now let's talk about the seals, these bastards are so brazen, they swim up to your boat and want to look inside for something to scavenge. Hook a decent stumpnose then 2 or 3 come out of no where and steal your catch. Then they don't move away, you must maar move along. Never in my 40 odd years fishing in Langebaan have I seen so many seals as now. They even have seem to set up base on the island as I've seen quite a few sunning themselves on the rocks. So I reckon the scientists should come and do some studies around the West coast, might just find a different result!!!!
Back to the sharks. At the end of the day we are playing in their domain and no animal is stupid. They will go for the weakest or easy pickings.Don't really think we are going to find a simple solution here unless we all pack up our fishing tackle, pull up all the shark nets, stop all trek-netting and ban all trawlers in our waters for at least 10 years, maybe then some normality will prevail. What's the chances??? :X

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 Posted: Mon Mar 18th, 2019 12:46 pm
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Charlie-B
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This photo has most likely been posted before. Bronzie caught and landed on sand/bait bank in Langebaan. Obviosly released...............

Attachment: haai.jpg (Downloaded 82 times)

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 Posted: Wed Mar 20th, 2019 03:32 pm
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nantes
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was gister uit see toe om te gaan vis . gesukkel vir lewendige aas . uiteindelik n paar gekry en dieper gegaan . my plek gekry waar ek wou vis . anker gesit paar lewindige baits aangesit en gewag . na so n uur my eerste trek gekry . n yellofin van so 15 . toe begin die fun . het altesaam seker so 25 tuna gehaak . 5 uitgekry en 20 vir die haaie gevoer . glo my dis nie my soort fun nie . 1 uit 6 is joune . 5 uit 6 vir die haaie . en nog steeds glo party mense daar is nie n haai probleem nie . glo my ons sit met n helse blackfin probleem in natal . hoop ons goverment gee die chineese longliners n permit om te kom blackfins vang hier .

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 Posted: Thu Mar 21st, 2019 11:36 am
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Pylstert
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William, daar is 'n uitstekende boek oor die visvang geskiedenis van die Breederivier - Gooi los deur Jan Langenhoven. Haai probleme in Witsand gaan donkiejare terug, party van die stories oor 12 - 16 reuse kabeljoue wat in een aand getax word, haaie wat onder die boot wag ens, weet nie so mooi of dit 'n nuwe probleem is nie?? Wat nog meer interresant oor die boek is is die massas vis wat vroeer jare daar uitgetrek is, baie stories oor ouens wat 5 of 6 100lb kabeljoue per aand vang, Rooi steenbras net so baie.

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