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The shark Tax problem in KZN South Africa  Rate Topic 
 
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 Posted: Sun Mar 10th, 2019 08:12 am
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willem wikkel spies
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Mana: 
Ok guys

lets keep it civil.
you are allowed to make your our statement/ opinion!
no personal attacks allowed.

lets see if we can discuss this problem and see if we can get a solution to the problem...………………….

Sharks and Edible fish

So where is the current balance in this system

Obviously some tread leads to posts like this one.
I have been thinking about this tread for a while now, and it is still a mystery for me, and for most of us.

so bare with me here, think what you have read.
and then make a useful contribution to this tread.
It must also be noted that Sealine was predominantly a Cape anglers. They tend to target sharks PE region etc and their views and findings might differ from the natal guys

lets talk about it!!! once and for all.

as a boat angler, i have been taxed more then enough in my short boating career.
it is a common fact, that sharks "black tips, Duskies and Zambo's" like to tax your fish while you are fighting it.

some times you win, with only partly taxed....
but most of the times i have lost.
7 of 8 fish to be taxed in 1 day is clearly unfair.

it is clear that there is a shark taxing problem in the natal waters from ski boats.

i have a friend, who was taxed from shore a couple of times in the st lucia yearly kingie run.
i have never been taxed from the shore apart from a shark taking my shad which i had just hooked.

shad is a bait fish for me, so it is excluded.

so, is is fair or right?
i would like to catch some fish, but due to sharks taxing me, i need to hook 10 fish, get taxed 9 times just to labd 1 fish.

we are now putting more pressure on our fish resourses as i will only start fishing harder just to land that 1 fish.
you can upgrade tackle but it is not a guarantee

does this taxing indicte that there is a imbalance in shark populations?
how do we adress this problem?
if we dod manage to catch the big taxers and cull them, what will happen?

a reef is a balanced system, the big shark is there to manage to reef system. he feeds off the reef, but he also needs to protect the reef from being invaded by smaller sharks who might decimate the fish on the reef.

i have had it off durban that a shark will follow the boat when slow trolling with live bait.
you can see teh bugger on the fish finder where he stays 8-12 meters under the boat.
so you know, that he is there following you.

so we sped off, to another area, and there again we noticed the bugger following us.

and if there is a imbalance in teh system, why are we not seeing it in other ways?

if we have so much less sharks, then the fish population will explode.
is it not teh other way around?
most anglers do not release edible fish.
so less food for the sharks and now they start to target boat anglers?

if we are over fishing edible game fish, why are we not seeing a explosion of bait fish?

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 Posted: Sun Mar 10th, 2019 09:15 am
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Foose
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Mana: 
Just want to include something to note....


Sharks are smart, they can adapt to the're surroundings and where food would normally come from.
Just like the zambies in the breede, they know that this dark shadow floating above will bring them a chance to get a meal easier than chasing said fish that is not fighting for its life.

Sharks and all predatory species have a natural urge to attack something that is giving off a distress signal as it spells "Easy Meal" for them.
Heck even bass of equal size chase the one that is hooked around biting at its tail.

My personal feeling would be that you are on a boat over a reef where the apex predator is the shark and that is his domain. Should you enter his domain he will take you up on the free meal you are offering.
Nothing complex about it just nature doing its thing.

Side note: I have gotten taxed before therefore I understand its not a lekka feeling but ultimately something you have to realize might or might not happen while out fishing.

I believe the shark numbers are actually in big trouble looking at how many are killed every year and any Ecosystem will collapse without an apex predator in the picture.

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 Posted: Sun Mar 10th, 2019 01:09 pm
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Spool-Song
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30-40 years ago, I remember reading the catch reports from the shore based competitions, and how the bulk of the catch consisted of edibles in the early days, and then later it changed to in-eds, particularly young dusky sharks (ridge back greys). The duskys made up more than 90% of the competition catches in the 80s. I'm not sure if that is still true, but the theory at the time was that the inshore shark netting culled the large sharks and allowed the grays to breed in an inshore safe haven.

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 Posted: Mon Mar 11th, 2019 06:02 am
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tubs the sea saver
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Spool-Song wrote:
30-40 years ago, I remember reading the catch reports from the shore based competitions, and how the bulk of the catch consisted of edibles in the early days, and then later it changed to in-eds, particularly young dusky sharks (ridge back greys). The duskys made up more than 90% of the competition catches in the 80s. I'm not sure if that is still true, but the theory at the time was that the inshore shark netting culled the large sharks and allowed the grays to breed in an inshore safe haven.

I believe that this is the issue, the larger sharks that would normally keep the smaller ones in check have been removed from the system thus allowing the smaller and medium sharks to become a plague. Human interference caused the issued in the first place.

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 Posted: Mon Mar 11th, 2019 06:41 am
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Noddy
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1. I love sharks - within safety measures (something between me and it - not me in its stomach.
2. Is the discussion focused on the KZN area?
- This would change a lot of opinions/facts. As the scenario differs to the rest of the SA coastline, and then differs to the coastal areas world-wide.

All these panty-in-knots comments... :?:shark:puke

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 Posted: Mon Mar 11th, 2019 07:13 am
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Pylstert
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If you read old books like Strike, the shark taxing problem is discussed there as well. I think there are just way less edible fish due to over fishing so it appears to be a bigger problem and shark nets in KZN wiping out large sharks that prey on smaller ones. In the Cape seals eat your fish.

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 Posted: Mon Mar 11th, 2019 07:18 am
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BIKS
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Cant beat them eat them :)

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 Posted: Mon Mar 11th, 2019 07:22 am
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willem wikkel spies
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the discussion can be for the whole of the south African coast line.

speaking to Miles, they do not seem to have a tax problem in the cape!

it is a fact that the sharks in KZN seems to be a problem by taxing hooked fish.

north at St lucia it was dolphins which liked to take hooked fish "snoek"

I agree that man, did cause the problem.
being taxed is not fun.
it seems like they just keep on taxing whatever you hook!!!
that aint fair!

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 Posted: Mon Mar 11th, 2019 07:29 am
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Spool-Song
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Foose wrote:
Just want to include something to note....


Sharks are smart, they can adapt to the're surroundings and where food would normally come from.
Just like the zambies in the breede, they know that this dark shadow floating above will bring them a chance to get a meal easier than chasing said fish that is not fighting for its life.

Sharks and all predatory species have a natural urge to attack something that is giving off a distress signal as it spells "Easy Meal" for them.
Heck even bass of equal size chase the one that is hooked around biting at its tail.

My personal feeling would be that you are on a boat over a reef where the apex predator is the shark and that is his domain. Should you enter his domain he will take you up on the free meal you are offering.
Nothing complex about it just nature doing its thing.

Side note: I have gotten taxed before therefore I understand its not a lekka feeling but ultimately something you have to realize might or might not happen while out fishing.

I believe the shark numbers are actually in big trouble looking at how many are killed every year and any Ecosystem will collapse without an apex predator in the picture.


((goodp_

I remember as a youngster, doing a dive over Protea Banks on the KZN South Coast. Its an awesome reef that holds a lot of nice fish...but, there are a lot of sharks too. That's what we dived there for in the first place. The funny thing, was that we were warned, that as the boat stops, the Zambi's gather underneath it, looking for hooked bottom fish. I though this was crazy, but sure enough, as the engines of the dive boat cut out, we went over, and as we approached the bottom at 35m, there was a Zambi waiting patiently beneath us for a meal. As we drifted, the dive boat follows the bubble trail, and during the dive several Zambis followed us, with the boat moving above us.

I don't think there are more of them, they are just adapting and evolving with changing circumstances.

Further, the notion that their numbers are increasing is dubious, as it is rare for slow growing apex predators to suddenly increase in numbers.

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 Posted: Mon Mar 11th, 2019 07:37 am
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willem wikkel spies
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forgot to mention....

spoke to a spearo.
he says they will not see any sharks around, then suddenly when the spear gun is fired, sharks just appear out of no where.

so it is clear that they are clever and adjust!!!

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 Posted: Mon Mar 11th, 2019 11:37 am
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yacoob
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Ok, my take on it is that the sharks have the right to tax us as much as they want to. It's their domain.

We have a similar , if not less frequent situation at langebaan lagoon when fishing for cob at night. I know the feeling, been there, done that, and will gladly still be doing it as long as i'm allowed to. All this means is that i have to outsmart it. If sharkey wins, tough.....
In falsebay we have the opposite problem. The great whites we used to see at our fishing grounds have all but disappeared. We had a few orca's here and during that time, a few GW's washed up on our shores with their livers bitten out. It seems, and i could be very wrong.... that since the GW population have decreased, the seal and penguin population exploded. Now they're decimating the fish stocks. I believe they cause a lot more damage to our eco system than sharks can.

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 Posted: Mon Mar 11th, 2019 12:15 pm
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mrcricket
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yacoob wrote:
Ok, my take on it is that the sharks have the right to tax us as much as they want to. It's their domain.

We have a similar , if not less frequent situation at langebaan lagoon when fishing for cob at night. I know the feeling, been there, done that, and will gladly still be doing it as long as i'm allowed to. All this means is that i have to outsmart it. If sharkey wins, tough.....
In falsebay we have the opposite problem. The great whites we used to see at our fishing grounds have all but disappeared. We had a few orca's here and during that time, a few GW's washed up on our shores with their livers bitten out. It seems, and i could be very wrong.... that since the GW population have decreased, the seal and penguin population exploded. Now they're decimating the fish stocks. I believe they cause a lot more damage to our eco system than sharks can.



Spot on. Since you’re in sharks domain,you get taxed. Take it on the chin like a man and keep fishing.

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 Posted: Mon Mar 11th, 2019 12:37 pm
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Stefan001
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A few weeks ago I was in KZN and fished off the ski with my buddy Duane from Reel excitement.
We had fish taxed off the barge and sharks follow our fish up from the deep. We had alot more success that other okes by putting the ratchet off and freespooling the fish away from the wreck.
The fish was then pulled hard to get it up to the surface asap.

ALL the okes  hooking fish on the barge and fighting them on it in that time were taxed... Box smart and land your fish as far as possible off any structure.

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 Posted: Mon Mar 11th, 2019 01:05 pm
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;)Let me be the fly in the ointment...the okies who are REALLY complaining about the sharks grabbing their fish ..is not the ones who are selling their fish they catch???...ek vra ma net??...I mean fuel for an outboard is pricey or rather an outboard is thirsty...:cool:

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 Posted: Mon Mar 11th, 2019 01:07 pm
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willem wikkel spies
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yacoob wrote:
Ok, my take on it is that the sharks have the right to tax us as much as they want to. It's their domain.

We have a similar , if not less frequent situation at langebaan lagoon when fishing for cob at night. I know the feeling, been there, done that, and will gladly still be doing it as long as i'm allowed to. All this means is that i have to outsmart it. If sharkey wins, tough.....
In falsebay we have the opposite problem. The great whites we used to see at our fishing grounds have all but disappeared. We had a few orca's here and during that time, a few GW's washed up on our shores with their livers bitten out. It seems, and i could be very wrong.... that since the GW population have decreased, the seal and penguin population exploded. Now they're decimating the fish stocks. I believe they cause a lot more damage to our eco system than sharks can.


so a explosion in penquin and seal population due to less white sharks.
so it is hand in hand and now visible to the naked eye.

but we cannot see this off durban!

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 Posted: Mon Mar 11th, 2019 01:18 pm
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Pylstert
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the penguin population has exploded??? No it hasn't, it is declining rapidly https://www.iol.co.za/weekend-argus/african-penguin-population-numbers-on-the-decrease-17765917

It has been listed as endangered recently.
According to scientific publications, fur seal populations have remained the same, but colonies have shifted around, mainly in Namibia though, False Bay population seems to have declined a bit.
Also other recent studies have shown that cow sharks are now praying on seal in False Bay.
I recall not long ago on Sealine how whites were seen as a pest, too many of them etc etc. Now in False Bay there is none.

Whenever people catch no fish it is always the sharks, seals or something else, never us catching (&^%$ load of fish ::tight:

Last edited on Mon Mar 11th, 2019 01:30 pm by Pylstert

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 Posted: Mon Mar 11th, 2019 01:22 pm
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Pylstert
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willem wikkel spies wrote: yacoob wrote:
Ok, my take on it is that the sharks have the right to tax us as much as they want to. It's their domain.

We have a similar , if not less frequent situation at langebaan lagoon when fishing for cob at night. I know the feeling, been there, done that, and will gladly still be doing it as long as i'm allowed to. All this means is that i have to outsmart it. If sharkey wins, tough.....
In falsebay we have the opposite problem. The great whites we used to see at our fishing grounds have all but disappeared. We had a few orca's here and during that time, a few GW's washed up on our shores with their livers bitten out. It seems, and i could be very wrong.... that since the GW population have decreased, the seal and penguin population exploded. Now they're decimating the fish stocks. I believe they cause a lot more damage to our eco system than sharks can.


so a explosion in penquin and seal population due to less white sharks.
so it is hand in hand and now visible to the naked eye.

but we cannot see this off durban
What can't you see in Durban?

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 Posted: Mon Mar 11th, 2019 02:06 pm
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willem wikkel spies
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Presies dit!!!!

there is no shortage of sharks off Durban.

the lack of great white sharks off cape caused a explosion in cape fur seals and penguins.

if sharks are endangered as claimed, then why do we have this problem.

this a a chain driven/ domino effect if apex is missing etc.

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 Posted: Mon Mar 11th, 2019 02:20 pm
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Pylstert
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Willem please read, the lack of great whites in the Cape has not caused an explosion in the penguin and seal populations. Penguins are in decline.

Great whites have only been absent for a very short period, I can send you a very good scientific publication based on thousands of observations of sharks.

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 Posted: Mon Mar 11th, 2019 02:22 pm
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Pylstert
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And here is the abstract from a study done on catches in the shark nets:


Population status of 14 shark species caught in the protective gillnets off KwaZulu–Natal beaches, South Africa, 1978–2003 Sheldon F. J. Dudley A C and Colin A. Simpfendorfer B + Author Affiliations Marine and Freshwater Research 57(2) 225-240 https://doi.org/10.1071/MF05156
Submitted: 22 August 2005  Accepted: 17 January 2006   Published: 10 March 2006
Shark nets have been set off the beaches of KwaZulu–Natal, South Africa, since 1952 to reduce the risk of shark attack. The nets fish in fixed localities 400 m from shore and both directly affect local shark populations and act as fisheries-independent monitoring devices. Reliable catch information at the species level was available for the period 1978–2003. Trends in catch rate and size were used to assess the population status of 14 commonly caught shark species. In addition, a demographic modelling approach was used in conjunction with the catch information to assess the potential effect of the nets on populations. Catch rates of four species (Carcharhinus leucas, C. limbatus, Sphyrna lewini and S. mokarran) showed a significant decline, as did the mean or median length of three species (Carcharhinus amboinensis, C. limbatus and female Carcharodon carcharias). For three species that showed declining catch rates or length the potential effect of the shark nets was assessed to be low, suggesting that other sources of catch were responsible for the declining status. The potential effect of the shark nets was assessed to be high for two species (Carcharhinus obscurus and Carcharias taurus, neither of which showed declines in catch rate or length), because of very low intrinsic rates of population increase.

Last edited on Mon Mar 11th, 2019 02:24 pm by Pylstert

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