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Suzuki Outboard - NO COMPRESSION ON 3 CYLINDERS - 900h - 5 years old  Rate Topic 
 
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 Posted: Wed Apr 10th, 2019 02:12 pm
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pork pie
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Mana: 
If it were that lean you would have felt the lack of punch. Insufficient valve clearance would definately increase exhaust valve temp by not allowing it to seat properly. It would then not be able to transfer heat from the valve head to the seat to cool down. Was this ever checked PROPERLY??

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 Posted: Wed Apr 10th, 2019 02:16 pm
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ricardoliveira
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Mana: 
willem wikkel spies wrote:
if you look at it this way....

900 hours at 45km/h gives you 40500km traveled.


that is quite a distance if it was done thus way, but seeing that outboards use water from the ocean to cool, then there should not be a reason for the engine to start overheating and thus shorting the engines life.


I would still claim, running to lean is the reason why.
because there is enough water to cool the engines down, the only reason could be a lean running engine.

regardless of water cooling available.
a lean run will cause internal damage to a engine.

all the best with the repairs

Thanks so much for your input Willem
Greatly appreciated.
Still waiting for parts to assemble power head back again.
Then they'll come and inspect the fuel system and lets see the outcome of that as well.

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 Posted: Wed Apr 10th, 2019 02:18 pm
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ricardoliveira
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pork pie wrote:
If it were that lean you would have felt the lack of punch. Insufficient valve clearance would definately increase exhaust valve temp by not allowing it to seat properly. It would then not be able to transfer heat from the valve head to the seat to cool down. Was this ever checked PROPERLY??

Valve clearance were within spec when checked.

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 Posted: Wed Apr 10th, 2019 02:22 pm
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pork pie
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Mana: 
with THOSE valves

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 Posted: Wed Apr 10th, 2019 02:23 pm
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ricardoliveira
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pork pie wrote:
with THOSE valves

Thats was what I was told.

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 Posted: Wed Apr 10th, 2019 04:31 pm
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willem wikkel spies
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Mana: 
did some researching.

if valve clearance is not correct, it can also lead to valves burning.

is the valve clearance sorted by hydraulic lifters or set with feeler gauge?

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 Posted: Fri Apr 12th, 2019 08:26 am
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ricardoliveira
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willem wikkel spies wrote:
did some researching.

if valve clearance is not correct, it can also lead to valves burning.

is the valve clearance sorted by hydraulic lifters or set with feeler gauge?

Feeler gauge.
Already ordered some so I start doing that myself.

And I looked at my Lowrance unit and its as recorded a 20670 km and 790h.

Attachment: Screenshot 2019-04-12 at 10.26.33.png (Downloaded 86 times)

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 Posted: Fri Apr 12th, 2019 01:32 pm
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ricardoliveira
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BTW
If anyone needs a Suzuki Outboard Service Manual for DF60A 2010-2015 models.
Suzuki Outboard Parts Catalogue Df40, 50, 60 2011 - 2016
& Suzuki Outboard Service Manual Download - DF60 DF70 - 2003

Check The link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh_Al0n7qWs

Attachment: Screenshot 2019-04-12 at 12.02.51.png (Downloaded 75 times)

Last edited on Fri Apr 12th, 2019 01:33 pm by ricardoliveira

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 Posted: Fri Apr 12th, 2019 06:06 pm
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willem wikkel spies
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from here:

https://www.yachtsurvey.com/myth_of_condensation_in_fuel_tanks.htm



The Myth of Condensation in Fuel Tanks

by David Pascoe
Frequently we hear it said that the cause of water in fuel tanks is due to condensation. I have long doubted this assertion but the issue has come up so frequently that I was finally motivated to try prove to the point. The basis of my belief or assumption is that:
There isn't enough air volume within a tank to hold much vapor.
On average, tanks are half full, further reducing volume
The amount of water vapor in air is very small, even at 100% humidity
Conditions aren't right to cause condensation in a fuel tank
Research produced the following values for the maximum amount of liquid water in air at the following temperatures:
30C/86F
30 grams/cubic meter
20C/50F
17 grams/cubic meter
10C/13F
9 grams/cubic meter
There are 28 grams per ounce, so 30 grams = 1.07 oz; 17 grams = 0.6428 oz.
A cubic meter equals 264 gallons of liquid volume, therefore:
A 200 gallon tank = 0.76 cubic meter.
At 86F, an empty 200 gallon tank could contain 22.8 grams of water vapor, or 0.81 oz.
At 50F, an empty 200 gallon tank could contain 12.92 grams of water vapor, or 0.46 oz.
Note that this is the maximum amount of water vapor that a completely empty tank could contain, in neither case a full ounce of water.
In order to condense water out of the atmosphere a surface must be much colder than the air. The problem for the condensation in tank theory is; how do we end up with a fuel tank that is much colder than the air? One way would be to have a very cold day that suddenly warms up dramatically, but when does this ever happen? The weather can turn cold very fast, but does not suddenly get very warm.
Aluminum is second only to copper for rapid heat transfer properties; it will therefore adjust to atmospheric temperature changes quickly. Gasoline and diesel fuel, like water absorb [sic] heat and cold slowly. Thus one might expect to see sweating on the outside of a tank as the day warms up from cold mornings, but do we? Well, I can say that after 35 years of inspecting boats, I've rarely seen tanks sweating. Note: Sweating may be likely to occur with boats in very cold waters when warm days are encountered.
This issue first came up a number of years ago over a question of whether internal engine rusting could be due to condensation caused by sudden temperature changes as from day to night and vice versa. Since that time, inspection of hundreds of engines showed that rust only occurs on the underside of valve covers due to water contamination of the oil. Very few engines have rusty undersides of valve covers, thereby proving the point that ice cold engine blocks in the morning don’t sweat as it warms up during the day. If that is true, then how could it be true that fuel tanks sweat?
My answer is that they don’t and these calculations prove it. My initial assumptions were correct. You do not need to store or lay up your boat with full fuel tanks. If you are getting water, it is getting there some other way.
Contaminated Fuel
Years ago we had serious fuel contamination problems due to underground steel storage tanks that rusted and leaked. Today all tanks are fiberglass, so this no longer happens (that I know of). However, those underground tanks do have fill plates on the ground surface (usually the parking lot) that can leak just like your boat deck plate. As the marina pumps its tanks nearly dry before the next fuel delivery, those who buy fuel from the near empty tank are the ones that are going to get the water (because it's pumped from the bottom of the tank). This despite the fact that the dock fuel pump has a water separating filter. I've opened the panels on occasion and have found the sight bowls completely filled with water, so at this point the water is being passed on to the customer. Next time you buy diesel, ask to see the filter at the pump! You have to remove the lower pump panel to see it.
However, it is important to note if you're getting water from your fuel retailer, chances are that it won't be a small amount. Most likely it will be a lot and your filters will fill up and engines crap out post-haste.
Leaking Fill Caps
By far the most common cause of contaminated boat tanks are deck fill caps that leak. Most of these things are stupidly mounted flat on decks which may puddle with water. The cap has a tiny little O-ring that is supposed to seal and keep water out. DOES IT? I wouldn't depend on one of these things unless I could prove that it doesn't leak. Check the condition of the o-ring and weather it is sealing.
One way to check positively is to clean the o-ring seat thoroughly; next apply some black or any color paint to the o-ring and screw the cap in place, tight. Then remove it and see if the paint has been completely transferred to the ring seat. If not, you now know where the problem is.
Another problem is the simple failure to seat the cap fully after refueling. This actually happens a lot, so check to see if the cap is loose.
The Tank Vent
Improperly located fuel tank vent fittings are one of the top causes of water getting into tanks. When this is the cause, if you are a salt water boater, then it will be salt water in your tank. A fuel tank vent fitting on the side of the hull should be angled down and aftward. If angled in any other direction, you've got a problem that needs fixing. Watch out for deteriorated plastic and zinc alloy fittings; some of these things deteriorate incredibly fast.
The vent line should have a riser loop on the inside. That is, it travels upward first, then downward. If not, that is another potential problem.
Check the Fuel Gauge Sender
One final possibility is the fuel gauge sender plate on top of the fuel tank. These are often made of steel or have steel screws that can rust away, a situation I've seen several times. Is water puddling on the tank top? Test all screws with a screw driver to make sure they are securely seated.
Posted February 21, 2004

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 Posted: Fri Apr 12th, 2019 06:23 pm
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willem wikkel spies
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ricardoliveira wrote:
willem wikkel spies wrote:
did some researching.

if valve clearance is not correct, it can also lead to valves burning.

is the valve clearance sorted by hydraulic lifters or set with feeler gauge?

Feeler gauge.
Already ordered some so I start doing that myself.

And I looked at my Lowrance unit and its as recorded a 20670 km and 790h.


thanks.
so valve clearance is set manually.
how did they then manage to f up 3x valves on the one head?
because it was either running too lean, or the incorrect valve clearance caused a bad ignition of the available fuel/ air and this caused temp to be raised, causing damage to the valves.

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 Posted: Mon Apr 15th, 2019 07:41 am
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ricardoliveira
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Location: Maputo, Mozambique
Posts: 31
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Mana: 
willem wikkel spies wrote:
from here:

https://www.yachtsurvey.com/myth_of_condensation_in_fuel_tanks.htm



The Myth of Condensation in Fuel Tanks

by David Pascoe
Frequently we hear it said that the cause of water in fuel tanks is due to condensation. I have long doubted this assertion but the issue has come up so frequently that I was finally motivated to try prove to the point. The basis of my belief or assumption is that:
There isn't enough air volume within a tank to hold much vapor.
On average, tanks are half full, further reducing volume
The amount of water vapor in air is very small, even at 100% humidity
Conditions aren't right to cause condensation in a fuel tank
Research produced the following values for the maximum amount of liquid water in air at the following temperatures:
30C/86F
30 grams/cubic meter
20C/50F
17 grams/cubic meter
10C/13F
9 grams/cubic meter
There are 28 grams per ounce, so 30 grams = 1.07 oz; 17 grams = 0.6428 oz.
A cubic meter equals 264 gallons of liquid volume, therefore:
A 200 gallon tank = 0.76 cubic meter.
At 86F, an empty 200 gallon tank could contain 22.8 grams of water vapor, or 0.81 oz.
At 50F, an empty 200 gallon tank could contain 12.92 grams of water vapor, or 0.46 oz.
Note that this is the maximum amount of water vapor that a completely empty tank could contain, in neither case a full ounce of water.
In order to condense water out of the atmosphere a surface must be much colder than the air. The problem for the condensation in tank theory is; how do we end up with a fuel tank that is much colder than the air? One way would be to have a very cold day that suddenly warms up dramatically, but when does this ever happen? The weather can turn cold very fast, but does not suddenly get very warm.
Aluminum is second only to copper for rapid heat transfer properties; it will therefore adjust to atmospheric temperature changes quickly. Gasoline and diesel fuel, like water absorb [sic] heat and cold slowly. Thus one might expect to see sweating on the outside of a tank as the day warms up from cold mornings, but do we? Well, I can say that after 35 years of inspecting boats, I've rarely seen tanks sweating. Note: Sweating may be likely to occur with boats in very cold waters when warm days are encountered.
This issue first came up a number of years ago over a question of whether internal engine rusting could be due to condensation caused by sudden temperature changes as from day to night and vice versa. Since that time, inspection of hundreds of engines showed that rust only occurs on the underside of valve covers due to water contamination of the oil. Very few engines have rusty undersides of valve covers, thereby proving the point that ice cold engine blocks in the morning don’t sweat as it warms up during the day. If that is true, then how could it be true that fuel tanks sweat?
My answer is that they don’t and these calculations prove it. My initial assumptions were correct. You do not need to store or lay up your boat with full fuel tanks. If you are getting water, it is getting there some other way.
Contaminated Fuel
Years ago we had serious fuel contamination problems due to underground steel storage tanks that rusted and leaked. Today all tanks are fiberglass, so this no longer happens (that I know of). However, those underground tanks do have fill plates on the ground surface (usually the parking lot) that can leak just like your boat deck plate. As the marina pumps its tanks nearly dry before the next fuel delivery, those who buy fuel from the near empty tank are the ones that are going to get the water (because it's pumped from the bottom of the tank). This despite the fact that the dock fuel pump has a water separating filter. I've opened the panels on occasion and have found the sight bowls completely filled with water, so at this point the water is being passed on to the customer. Next time you buy diesel, ask to see the filter at the pump! You have to remove the lower pump panel to see it.
However, it is important to note if you're getting water from your fuel retailer, chances are that it won't be a small amount. Most likely it will be a lot and your filters will fill up and engines crap out post-haste.
Leaking Fill Caps
By far the most common cause of contaminated boat tanks are deck fill caps that leak. Most of these things are stupidly mounted flat on decks which may puddle with water. The cap has a tiny little O-ring that is supposed to seal and keep water out. DOES IT? I wouldn't depend on one of these things unless I could prove that it doesn't leak. Check the condition of the o-ring and weather it is sealing.
One way to check positively is to clean the o-ring seat thoroughly; next apply some black or any color paint to the o-ring and screw the cap in place, tight. Then remove it and see if the paint has been completely transferred to the ring seat. If not, you now know where the problem is.
Another problem is the simple failure to seat the cap fully after refueling. This actually happens a lot, so check to see if the cap is loose.
The Tank Vent
Improperly located fuel tank vent fittings are one of the top causes of water getting into tanks. When this is the cause, if you are a salt water boater, then it will be salt water in your tank. A fuel tank vent fitting on the side of the hull should be angled down and aftward. If angled in any other direction, you've got a problem that needs fixing. Watch out for deteriorated plastic and zinc alloy fittings; some of these things deteriorate incredibly fast.
The vent line should have a riser loop on the inside. That is, it travels upward first, then downward. If not, that is another potential problem.
Check the Fuel Gauge Sender
One final possibility is the fuel gauge sender plate on top of the fuel tank. These are often made of steel or have steel screws that can rust away, a situation I've seen several times. Is water puddling on the tank top? Test all screws with a screw driver to make sure they are securely seated.
Posted February 21, 2004

Interesting. Good to know.
As on my new boat I have a 350lt fuel tank and that's something that keep me worried.

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 Posted: Mon Apr 15th, 2019 08:39 am
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willem wikkel spies
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Mana: 
maybe you should drain the tank.
while doing this, make a video recording of the matter.

if all is clean, then the escape route of dirty fuel is closed.
seems like no one wants to own up.

that is what we do, we make video recordings and that is how we take the guys out!!!

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 Posted: Mon Apr 15th, 2019 08:52 am
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ricardoliveira
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Offline
Mana: 
willem wikkel spies wrote:
maybe you should drain the tank.
while doing this, make a video recording of the matter.

if all is clean, then the escape route of dirty fuel is closed.
seems like no one wants to own up.

that is what we do, we make video recordings and that is how we take the guys out!!!

Boat with tank is my new boat with Yamahas.
The older boat has the Suzukis, but I always used 25lt jerrycans.

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 Posted: Mon Apr 15th, 2019 10:30 am
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willem wikkel spies
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Joined: Tue Apr 29th, 2008
Location: Heidelberg, South Africa
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Equipment: ekt geleer net die beste werk.............................
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Favorite Fishing Spot: noord van die tugela is goed genoeg
Boat: Kosi cat 16; 2x 60 mercs
Club: nooooit nie
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
then there should not be a problem.

in any case, motors should be out of warrantee.

on the 1x picture you posted, 2x bolts were clearly not secured.

so it seems like they came loose over time.

one cannot always just go and open up engines for the love of it!!!
so a normal service will not include this.

let us know, how long it takes to repair.
what the costs are
what the repairs were... all aspects

thanks

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