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 Posted: Sat Nov 2nd, 2019 01:27 pm
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fergar
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Joined: Fri Nov 1st, 2019
Location: Alcobaça, Portugal
Posts: 11
Equipment: colmic national pro+daiwa tournament basia 45 qdx+0.25mm mono+0.50 shockleader
Best Catch: +- 3 kg bass+2.4 kg sea bream
Favorite Fishing Spot: beach on west and south portuguese coast
Boat: no boat
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Mana: 
Hi!

I would like to know what do you think will be the most appropriate type of rings and layout system for maximum casting distance of 6-7 oz lead+bait with my 13' 6'' two unequal sections rod (6' butt+7' 6'' tip) coupled with a daiwa tournament basia 45 QDX reel spooled with 0.25 mm nylon and a 0.55 shock leader.

Thanks

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 Posted: Sat Nov 2nd, 2019 04:23 pm
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Tackle-holic
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Joined: Tue Oct 8th, 2013
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posts: 621
Equipment: Shimano reels, custom rods
Best Catch: My son's first fish caught on his own
Favorite Fishing Spot: Vaal river below Parys; Transkei estuaries, Kosi Bay
Boat: Does a kick boat count?
Club: No
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Mana: 
That is a very uncommon set up down here in South Africa.
Most anglers here would think you have gone mad.
But you haven't; although 0.55mm leader with 6-7oz + bait is brave.
What blank / original rod is that you are using?
Without getting too technical: KW30/25/20/12 and then 5x KW10's to a MN10 tip top.

Butt cap to reel position?
Seriously consider a braid mainline and braid leader: 0.25mm ie PE2 to 0.36mm/PE4 shock leader to your choice mono would work for 3-5oz + bait.

Change sinker to 6-7oz and I would suggest PE6-8 for the shock leader; perhaps bumping mainline up to PE4, but your own conditions would dictate this.

Unless you are dealing with very heavy side wash, the 5oz setup will be much more fun, and will cast beautifully.

Last edited on Sat Nov 2nd, 2019 04:28 pm by Tackle-holic

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 Posted: Sat Nov 2nd, 2019 04:52 pm
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fergar
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Joined: Fri Nov 1st, 2019
Location: Alcobaça, Portugal
Posts: 11
Equipment: colmic national pro+daiwa tournament basia 45 qdx+0.25mm mono+0.50 shockleader
Best Catch: +- 3 kg bass+2.4 kg sea bream
Favorite Fishing Spot: beach on west and south portuguese coast
Boat: no boat
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Mana: 
Thank you for your reply.

''What blank / original rod is that you are using?''
It is a Zziplex Bullet Hi Flex


''Seriously consider a braid mainline and braid leader: 0.25mm ie PE2 to 0.36mm/PE4 shock leader to your choice mono would work for 3-5oz + bait.''
Everybody here have given up surfcasting with braid. The tip never stays quiet and lots of problems with the nylon snoods on the braid shock leader.

''Unless you are dealing with very heavy side wash, the 5oz setup will be much more fun, and will cast beautifully.''
Most of the time where i fish my 0.25+0.55 setup needs a 160 to 180 gr lead to keep it not moving with the side wash

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 Posted: Sat Nov 2nd, 2019 04:54 pm
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fergar
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Joined: Fri Nov 1st, 2019
Location: Alcobaça, Portugal
Posts: 11
Equipment: colmic national pro+daiwa tournament basia 45 qdx+0.25mm mono+0.50 shockleader
Best Catch: +- 3 kg bass+2.4 kg sea bream
Favorite Fishing Spot: beach on west and south portuguese coast
Boat: no boat
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Mana: 
''Butt cap to reel position?''
About 88 mm

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 Posted: Sat Nov 2nd, 2019 05:57 pm
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Tackle-holic
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Joined: Tue Oct 8th, 2013
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posts: 621
Equipment: Shimano reels, custom rods
Best Catch: My son's first fish caught on his own
Favorite Fishing Spot: Vaal river below Parys; Transkei estuaries, Kosi Bay
Boat: Does a kick boat count?
Club: No
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Mana: 
880mm / 88cm / 0.88m perhaps?

Attachment: Screenshot 2019-11-02 at 18.57.06.png (Downloaded 70 times)

Last edited on Sat Nov 2nd, 2019 05:58 pm by Tackle-holic

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 Posted: Sat Nov 2nd, 2019 06:03 pm
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fergar
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Joined: Fri Nov 1st, 2019
Location: Alcobaça, Portugal
Posts: 11
Equipment: colmic national pro+daiwa tournament basia 45 qdx+0.25mm mono+0.50 shockleader
Best Catch: +- 3 kg bass+2.4 kg sea bream
Favorite Fishing Spot: beach on west and south portuguese coast
Boat: no boat
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Mana: 
You are right. 88 cm

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 Posted: Sat Nov 2nd, 2019 08:34 pm
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Tackle-holic
Sealiner
 

Joined: Tue Oct 8th, 2013
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posts: 621
Equipment: Shimano reels, custom rods
Best Catch: My son's first fish caught on his own
Favorite Fishing Spot: Vaal river below Parys; Transkei estuaries, Kosi Bay
Boat: Does a kick boat count?
Club: No
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Mana: 
Wow, that is very wide hand spacing.Have you tried slightly closer or are you VERY comfortable at 88cm?
I hold my fixed spool set ups a bit unusually with the reel stem between my pinkie and ring finger so I set up fixed spool with reel stem at 67cm from butt, this puts my multiplier @ 75cm for 100% equal hand-spacing between the 2 reel types - I use this with rods to 14'10 (think Century T1200)

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 Posted: Sat Nov 2nd, 2019 08:36 pm
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Tackle-holic
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Joined: Tue Oct 8th, 2013
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posts: 621
Equipment: Shimano reels, custom rods
Best Catch: My son's first fish caught on his own
Favorite Fishing Spot: Vaal river below Parys; Transkei estuaries, Kosi Bay
Boat: Does a kick boat count?
Club: No
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Mana: 
SA boys, don't laugh, I am one of very few down here that cast with a high reel, but it works for ME.

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 Posted: Sat Nov 2nd, 2019 08:40 pm
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Tackle-holic
Sealiner
 

Joined: Tue Oct 8th, 2013
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posts: 621
Equipment: Shimano reels, custom rods
Best Catch: My son's first fish caught on his own
Favorite Fishing Spot: Vaal river below Parys; Transkei estuaries, Kosi Bay
Boat: Does a kick boat count?
Club: No
Status: 
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Mana: 
fergar wrote: Thank you for your reply.

''What blank / original rod is that you are using?''
It is a Zziplex Bullet Hi Flex


''Seriously consider a braid mainline and braid leader: 0.25mm ie PE2 to 0.36mm/PE4 shock leader to your choice mono would work for 3-5oz + bait.''
Everybody here have given up surfcasting with braid. The tip never stays quiet and lots of problems with the nylon snoods on the braid shock leader.

''Unless you are dealing with very heavy side wash, the 5oz setup will be much more fun, and will cast beautifully.''
Most of the time where i fish my 0.25+0.55 setup needs a 160 to 180 gr lead to keep it not moving with the side wash
Nice blank that.

1. Are you using plain sinkers or wire grapnel types?
2. Given up surfcasting with braid? C'mon.... Nylon snoods tied to a nylon rig length works fine.

Last edited on Sat Nov 2nd, 2019 08:40 pm by Tackle-holic

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 Posted: Sat Nov 2nd, 2019 08:53 pm
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Tackle-holic
Sealiner
 

Joined: Tue Oct 8th, 2013
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posts: 621
Equipment: Shimano reels, custom rods
Best Catch: My son's first fish caught on his own
Favorite Fishing Spot: Vaal river below Parys; Transkei estuaries, Kosi Bay
Boat: Does a kick boat count?
Club: No
Status: 
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Mana: 
Out of interest is it a "factory" Zippy ie from Gerry's in the UK?

If memory serves, they use a KW30L ie low framed stripper guide, which whilst both Century and Gerry's say it is OK for fixed spool use, it really is too low.

The KW30 high frame is a MUCH better stripper/butt guide for fixed spool use

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 Posted: Sat Nov 2nd, 2019 09:07 pm
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fergar
Member
 

Joined: Fri Nov 1st, 2019
Location: Alcobaça, Portugal
Posts: 11
Equipment: colmic national pro+daiwa tournament basia 45 qdx+0.25mm mono+0.50 shockleader
Best Catch: +- 3 kg bass+2.4 kg sea bream
Favorite Fishing Spot: beach on west and south portuguese coast
Boat: no boat
Club: 
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
''Are you using plain sinkers or wire grapnel types?''
Usually plain sinkers

''Given up surfcasting with braid?''
Doesn't the tip being allways in motion bother you?

''Out of interest is it a "factory" Zippy ie from Gerry's in the UK?''
Yes, but i only bought the blank to be built here

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 Posted: Sun Nov 3rd, 2019 09:23 am
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Dr halibut hoffman
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Joined: Wed Sep 16th, 2009
Location: Cape, South Africa
Posts: 2342
Equipment: Shimano, daiwa, a finnor and an elbe.. The rest died. ...
Best Catch: Shimano, daiwa, a finnor and an elbe.. The rest died. ...145cm FL Leervis released (Shore), 80kg+ yellowfin (Boat). 83cm Cracker. ...
Favorite Fishing Spot: Kranse en diepsee!
Boat: 15' Skicraft cat.Canoe. Crew on Buttcats.
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My Gallery: 
I was sliding foot long mullets last night off the beach with 0.55 mono mainline and a 0.8mm leader and 1mm hook snood, with a 5oz sinker..and a 13ft rod. So yeah in SA we would think you've lost the plot! LOL

The guy giving you advice above is one of the REEL experts out there I hope you realize..?! If anyone can tell you exactly how to do your setup, and make it for you its tackle-holic.. ;)

I fish a light 0.35 multiplier rig but that is with a 11ft rod and 2-3oz sinkers.

You should be fishing a magged size 40 -50 surf multiplier like a SL50SH or GW50 would be my opinion and 0.50 or so mainline with leads like that..or scale down leads and use grapnels which we would not consider fishing currents on beach without, nylon or wire. Most of the competitive anglers here also fish braid setups with bionic fingers (casting aid) on rods and low reel seat position and use a braid casting leader of 50-80lb and braid mainline from 20-30lb I think. Avoiding windknots and guide tangles is all about the reel used, its rod position and setup relative to eye setup, and the guide layout and type and also your leader setup and length. There is a happy harmony that you can find without tangles. That said I prefer the feel and distance I get with heavier mono and a mutiplier with aftermarket internal mag. I also prefer a high reel seat grinder setup on the grinder setup too but that is very high?!

What distances are you casting by the way? Our typical surf fishing is casting 4-5oz sinkers or more, 80-150m casts or far less and small and large baits, using 13-15ft rods, generally.

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 Posted: Sun Nov 3rd, 2019 11:15 am
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Tackle-holic
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Joined: Tue Oct 8th, 2013
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posts: 621
Equipment: Shimano reels, custom rods
Best Catch: My son's first fish caught on his own
Favorite Fishing Spot: Vaal river below Parys; Transkei estuaries, Kosi Bay
Boat: Does a kick boat count?
Club: No
Status: 
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Mana: 
fergar wrote: ''Are you using plain sinkers or wire grapnel types?''
Usually plain sinkers

''Given up surfcasting with braid?''
Doesn't the tip being allways in motion bother you?

''Out of interest is it a "factory" Zippy ie from Gerry's in the UK?''
Yes, but i only bought the blank to be built here
Try a smaller, say 125g - 150g wire grapnel.

What bait size are you using?

Tip motion doesn't bother me at all - thin braid + 4-5oz grapnel sticks like snot to a shirt sleeve when I use small-ish baits, way better than a plain 7oz and significantly easier to cast, especially if I need to cast far.

Many surf rods for fixed spool reels in SA are built with a low framed KW40 to a low 30 then a 25 and a 20 to a 16 to 12's.

I am convinced the high framed KW30 set up is a better option:KW30H KW25 KW20 KW12 (no size 16) reduction and then 10's.

My own rods use single foot KT guides after the reduction set up: size 8 for rods I throw 3-5oz on and and size 10's for the bigger stick.

Not once, not ever, have I had an issue, but your own mileage may vary from mine....

Last edited on Sun Nov 3rd, 2019 11:16 am by Tackle-holic

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 Posted: Sun Nov 3rd, 2019 11:16 am
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fergar
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Joined: Fri Nov 1st, 2019
Location: Alcobaça, Portugal
Posts: 11
Equipment: colmic national pro+daiwa tournament basia 45 qdx+0.25mm mono+0.50 shockleader
Best Catch: +- 3 kg bass+2.4 kg sea bream
Favorite Fishing Spot: beach on west and south portuguese coast
Boat: no boat
Club: 
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
''I was sliding foot long mullets last night off the beach with 0.55 mono mainline and a 0.8mm leader and 1mm hook snood, with a 5oz sinker..and a 13ft rod. So yeah in SA we would think you've lost the plot! LOL''

We would never use anything like that as we rarely catch any fish over 5 kg from the beach. I usually fish for bass and sea bream.

''The guy giving you advice above is one of the REEL experts out there I hope you realize..?! If anyone can tell you exactly how to do your setup, and make it for you its tackle-holic..''

Yes, I realized that after reading the Fuji KR Concept thread

''You should be fishing a magged size 40 -50 surf multiplier like a SL50SH or GW50 would be my opinion and 0.50 or so mainline with leads like that..or scale down leads and use grapnels which we would not consider fishing currents on beach without, nylon or wire.''

I have never used a multiplier or grapnels, and nobody here uses multipliers for surfcasting (tradition rules, I suppose) and very rarely grapnels (usually pyramid or ball leads with currents)

''What distances are you casting by the way? Our typical surf fishing is casting 4-5oz sinkers or more, 80-150m casts or far less and small and large baits, using 13-15ft rods, generally.''

Pretty much the same

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 Posted: Sun Nov 3rd, 2019 11:30 am
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Tackle-holic
Sealiner
 

Joined: Tue Oct 8th, 2013
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posts: 621
Equipment: Shimano reels, custom rods
Best Catch: My son's first fish caught on his own
Favorite Fishing Spot: Vaal river below Parys; Transkei estuaries, Kosi Bay
Boat: Does a kick boat count?
Club: No
Status: 
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Mana: 
Fergar,

If are are not put off by initial cost.....
Fuji's RV's beat the KW layout hands down; but is expensive....

RV25 RV16 KW12M KW10M to KW10's.
A word of advice: conventional wisdom says 6-7 guides total. Ignore this.
The extra friction from the extra guides is LESS than the friction of line slapping against and around the blank. And the rod will feel different!


For a 13'6" I would PERSONALLY use 9 maybe 10 guides + the tip top

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 Posted: Sun Nov 3rd, 2019 11:32 am
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fergar
Member
 

Joined: Fri Nov 1st, 2019
Location: Alcobaça, Portugal
Posts: 11
Equipment: colmic national pro+daiwa tournament basia 45 qdx+0.25mm mono+0.50 shockleader
Best Catch: +- 3 kg bass+2.4 kg sea bream
Favorite Fishing Spot: beach on west and south portuguese coast
Boat: no boat
Club: 
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Given up surfcasting with braid? C'mon.... Nylon snoods tied to a nylon rig length works fine.

Ok... and the rig is attached to a braid shock leader or a nylon one?

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 Posted: Sun Nov 3rd, 2019 11:44 am
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fergar
Member
 

Joined: Fri Nov 1st, 2019
Location: Alcobaça, Portugal
Posts: 11
Equipment: colmic national pro+daiwa tournament basia 45 qdx+0.25mm mono+0.50 shockleader
Best Catch: +- 3 kg bass+2.4 kg sea bream
Favorite Fishing Spot: beach on west and south portuguese coast
Boat: no boat
Club: 
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
''Try a smaller, say 125g - 150g wire grapnel.
What bait size are you using?''

I will give it a try.
I usually use small baits


''Not once, not ever, have I had an issue, but your own mileage may vary from mine....''

I will gladly accept to try your suggestions...when nobody is around or I will hear some laughs.

Last edited on Sun Nov 3rd, 2019 11:54 am by fergar

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 Posted: Sun Nov 3rd, 2019 11:51 am
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fergar
Member
 

Joined: Fri Nov 1st, 2019
Location: Alcobaça, Portugal
Posts: 11
Equipment: colmic national pro+daiwa tournament basia 45 qdx+0.25mm mono+0.50 shockleader
Best Catch: +- 3 kg bass+2.4 kg sea bream
Favorite Fishing Spot: beach on west and south portuguese coast
Boat: no boat
Club: 
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
''I am convinced the high framed KW30 set up is a better option:KW30H KW25 KW20 KW12 (no size 16) reduction and then 10's.
My own rods use single foot KT guides after the reduction set up: size 8 for rods I throw 3-5oz on and and size 10's for the bigger stick.''

Would KW guides instead of KT ones be ok?
Wouldn't you consider LCs as reduction guides mantaining the running guides the same?

Last edited on Sun Nov 3rd, 2019 11:55 am by fergar

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 Posted: Mon Nov 4th, 2019 03:21 am
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Tackle-holic
Sealiner
 

Joined: Tue Oct 8th, 2013
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posts: 621
Equipment: Shimano reels, custom rods
Best Catch: My son's first fish caught on his own
Favorite Fishing Spot: Vaal river below Parys; Transkei estuaries, Kosi Bay
Boat: Does a kick boat count?
Club: No
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
fergar wrote: ''I am convinced the high framed KW30 set up is a better option:KW30H KW25 KW20 KW12 (no size 16) reduction and then 10's.
My own rods use single foot KT guides after the reduction set up: size 8 for rods I throw 3-5oz on and and size 10's for the bigger stick.''

Would KW guides instead of KT ones be ok?
Wouldn't you consider LCs as reduction guides mantaining the running guides the same?

1. Of course you can use KW's for running guides - I just like living in the edge and seeing how far I can push the lightness idea before things go wrong go wrong go wrong go wrong...
2. LC reduction train and then KW's - absolutely works exceptionally well; LC20 LC16 KW12 and then what ever you want to use as running guides


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 Posted: Mon Nov 4th, 2019 09:53 am
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fergar
Member
 

Joined: Fri Nov 1st, 2019
Location: Alcobaça, Portugal
Posts: 11
Equipment: colmic national pro+daiwa tournament basia 45 qdx+0.25mm mono+0.50 shockleader
Best Catch: +- 3 kg bass+2.4 kg sea bream
Favorite Fishing Spot: beach on west and south portuguese coast
Boat: no boat
Club: 
Status: 
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Mana: 
Ok. Thank you for all your help.
Best regards.

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