SEALINE - South African Angling and Boating Community Home 
Home Recent Search search Menu menu Not logged in - Login | Register


 Moderated by: Enigma, Emperor
New Topic Reply Printer Friendly
Advice needed Bottom Fishing - Rods and Reels  Rate Topic 
 
AuthorPost
 Posted: Sat Nov 2nd, 2019 05:00 pm
  PM Quote Reply
1st Post
RomP
Member
 

Joined: Sat Nov 2nd, 2019
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Posts: 4
Equipment: Shimano Rods, Penn Reels
Best Catch: Big Geelbek and Cob
Favorite Fishing Spot: East Coats Kenton on Sea
Boat: No Boat, go out with family
Club: No
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Hi all,

Ive posted this in another section, maybe this section is more applicable, apologies if its duplicated.
Need some advice from the experts...
Ive been fishing on and off with family off the East Coast ( Kenton on Sea) for many yrs. We normally go bottoms fishing for Cob or Geelbek mostly. I have been using an old Faithful Pen 68 ( I know its not ideal for bottoms fishing ) but its worked for me all the years.
So now my son is 16yr old and going on his first "deep sea" fishing trip with us in December. Time for a new reel and rod setup for the young man.
Reels:Ive looked at the Shimano Speeedmaster4 or Penn Jigmaster 500. From online review i understand that the new Penn reels are now made in China and not of the same quality. It this the same with the Shimano ?Any other reels one can recommend or if there is someone up in Gauteng wanting to sell any of the above mentioned 2nd hand reels, that will be great.
Rods:
Ive looked at the Shimano Vengeance 3050 ( 30lbs-50lbs ) stand up rod at it seems reasonably affordable. I'll be interested in 2 rods as my old rod is past its service life. Any comments on these specific or similar rods to what Ive mentioned ?
Keep in mind that we not hardcore competition fishermen...We do this annually for the fun of it, but I do want reasonable equipment that will not fail on the first day out.
Any comments or recommendations will be appreciated.Maybe also references to good shops in and around Pretoria that can assist will be appreciated.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Sat Nov 2nd, 2019 07:31 pm
  PM Quote Reply
2nd Post
D5
Senior Member
 

Joined: Sat Oct 3rd, 2009
Location: JHB, South Africa
Posts: 314
Equipment: Shimano, Sonik , ABU,
Best Catch: 10kg common , 18.5 kg Cat
Favorite Fishing Spot: Tago
Boat: No
Club: no
Status: 
Online
Mana: 
You need to get your son the lightest setup as they get easy discouraged if becomes hard work when current is stronger or at higher depths as for large sinker . . 5ft6 rod , ideally XH Jigging rod with strong eyes as these rods are very forgiving if youngster decides to pick a larger fish with the rod to lift it in the boat . I would think of multiplier with narrow spool size 16 or max 20 . I would look rather for second hand upper setup then for new . Braid would go with 30-40 LB HMP ( less resistance on strong currents ) and 50-65 LB leader . Coffee grinders ( cheaper once ) gears don’t last long when used on bottom fishing as I have seen on many occasions youngsters - they don’t like to use rod to pump and wind but rather rest rod against gunnel and crank very hard . But to me, coffee grinders are more versatile as in case of sudden fish siting on the surface like often being a shoal of kingfish or garfish and with quick change he can throw a lure with same rod and reel .
Just my 2c

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Sun Nov 3rd, 2019 08:23 am
  PM Quote Reply
3rd Post
Dr halibut hoffman
Moderator


Joined: Wed Sep 16th, 2009
Location: Cape, South Africa
Posts: 2508
Equipment: Shimano, daiwa, a finnor and an elbe.. The rest died. ...
Best Catch: Shimano, daiwa, a finnor and an elbe.. The rest died. ...145cm FL Leervis released (Shore), 80kg+ yellowfin (Boat). 83cm Cracker. ...
Favorite Fishing Spot: Kranse en diepsee!
Boat: 15' Skicraft cat.Canoe. Crew on Buttcats.
Club: Ike jime,no club
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
My Gallery: 
For bek etc..I'd almost go with the same as above, rather a 5'6" MH jigging rod customised to fish low reel position and a medium to narrow multiplier..you can go cheap, also made in china, well recommended.. Adrenalin x-masterPRO in 30 size, you can get a level wind too if not going to be used for shore-fishing or casting. 0.55 mono in case something bigger picks you up. HMP 50-65lb braid otherwise if braid route. No complaints, only compliments after using HMP for 5 or 6 years. Really good quality line and dependable and locally made and less middlemen so cheaper than it should be. But I use mono as even cheap braid is bloody expensive these days!

I use an xmaster pro or old saltist40 and 0.55 to 0.50 but I have been outclassed on the 0.50 when picking up big gamefish bottom fishing over shallow reefs.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Fri Nov 8th, 2019 12:06 pm
  PM Quote Reply
4th Post
RomP
Member
 

Joined: Sat Nov 2nd, 2019
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Posts: 4
Equipment: Shimano Rods, Penn Reels
Best Catch: Big Geelbek and Cob
Favorite Fishing Spot: East Coats Kenton on Sea
Boat: No Boat, go out with family
Club: No
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Thanks All,

Now to go a study up on XH, MH etc rods, then find a good shop in Pretoria and see what happens.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Wed Nov 13th, 2019 08:29 pm
  PM Quote Reply
5th Post
benniejordaan
Offshore Moderator


Joined: Wed Nov 14th, 2007
Location: Durban, South Africa
Posts: 12407
Equipment: A few bits and pieces, nothing special.
Best Catch: Marlin
Favorite Fishing Spot: East coast
Boat: Seacat 520
Club: Fynnlands
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
7' Travella jigging rods are awesome and that's what we use for the lighties but I don't like the single foot guides on the spinning version so replaced them with double foot guides. If the rod is too short it can be a pain especially if the fish circles and with a long trace. you need a longer rod to manage the trace. 8' is an ideal length and I recently bought an Okuma Metaloid rod for R1300 and I reckon that's a winner. Right length, strong guides and versatile. As for reels, we have been using the Penn slammers for about a year and a half now. Very robust and easy to fish with. Grinders would definitely be my choice for beginners / girls / or lazy asses like me.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Thu Nov 14th, 2019 07:23 am
  PM Quote Reply
6th Post
D5
Senior Member
 

Joined: Sat Oct 3rd, 2009
Location: JHB, South Africa
Posts: 314
Equipment: Shimano, Sonik , ABU,
Best Catch: 10kg common , 18.5 kg Cat
Favorite Fishing Spot: Tago
Boat: No
Club: no
Status: 
Online
Mana: 
benniejordaan wrote: 7' Travella jigging rods are awesome and that's what we use for the lighties but I don't like the single foot guides on the spinning version so replaced them with double foot guides. If the rod is too short it can be a pain especially if the fish circles and with a long trace. you need a longer rod to manage the trace. 8' is an ideal length and I recently bought an Okuma Metaloid rod for R1300 and I reckon that's a winner. Right length, strong guides and versatile. As for reels, we have been using the Penn slammers for about a year and a half now. Very robust and easy to fish with. Grinders would definitely be my choice for beginners / girls / or lazy asses like me.
I agree on Trevala - blank is good, eyes are far too soft  . I had to bend them back too many times.
Now my Trevala will be used only for catching bait and I have two Daiwa Saltiga Hiramasa that are miles ahead of trevala .I also had very same Okuma Metaloid and tip snapped due to defect in blank.
Grinder is really best for bottom but my Stella 20K has one set back as I cannot disengage anti reverse. You have to use grinder that has lever to disengage the anti reverse , that is where KP reels has advantage . Often seen when you do pull up few meters up and then drop few meters back , Rock Cod gets triggered and hits the bait .Constant opening the bail damages the braid . Does Penn Slammer has lever for anti reverse ? I see it has stainless gears and that is a must for this type of fishing .


Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Thu Nov 14th, 2019 06:17 pm
  PM Quote Reply
7th Post
Dr halibut hoffman
Moderator


Joined: Wed Sep 16th, 2009
Location: Cape, South Africa
Posts: 2508
Equipment: Shimano, daiwa, a finnor and an elbe.. The rest died. ...
Best Catch: Shimano, daiwa, a finnor and an elbe.. The rest died. ...145cm FL Leervis released (Shore), 80kg+ yellowfin (Boat). 83cm Cracker. ...
Favorite Fishing Spot: Kranse en diepsee!
Boat: 15' Skicraft cat.Canoe. Crew on Buttcats.
Club: Ike jime,no club
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
My Gallery: 
D5 wrote: benniejordaan wrote: 7' Travella jigging rods are awesome and that's what we use for the lighties but I don't like the single foot guides on the spinning version so replaced them with double foot guides. If the rod is too short it can be a pain especially if the fish circles and with a long trace. you need a longer rod to manage the trace. 8' is an ideal length and I recently bought an Okuma Metaloid rod for R1300 and I reckon that's a winner. Right length, strong guides and versatile. As for reels, we have been using the Penn slammers for about a year and a half now. Very robust and easy to fish with. Grinders would definitely be my choice for beginners / girls / or lazy asses like me.
I agree on Trevala - blank is good, eyes are far too soft  . I had to bend them back too many times.
Now my Trevala will be used only for catching bait and I have two Daiwa Saltiga Hiramasa that are miles ahead of trevala .I also had very same Okuma Metaloid and tip snapped due to defect in blank.
Grinder is really best for bottom but my Stella 20K has one set back as I cannot disengage anti reverse. You have to use grinder that has lever to disengage the anti reverse , that is where KP reels has advantage . Often seen when you do pull up few meters up and then drop few meters back , Rock Cod gets triggered and hits the bait .Constant opening the bail damages the braid . Does Penn Slammer has lever for anti reverse ? I see it has stainless gears and that is a must for this type of fishing .




Multiplier..gears made for winching..lever drag or clutch lever on star drag are made to be in reach without taking your hand off the knob, drag also..Grinder, antireverse trip sits under the reel and drag infront, both not reachable without taking hand off the handle, in the anti reverse case you gotta left hand it while holding the handle or it goes spinning. What an UNergonomic mess and I can recall loosing more than one or two big fish while I was fumbling trying to switch the antireverse back on after bumping the lever by mistake or fumbling on the drag while trying to fight a fish.

On a multiplier everything is there where you need it, you dont even have to take your eye off the fish to adjust anything. Regarding a KP..no anti reverse, dog etc..no gears no drag, a proper fish leaves you with broken knuckles..nuff said. Sure if you going commercial on the bek you can winch em up faster and get another but the limit only 2 fish these days so you may as well play your fish with a smooth drag and have some fun..
East coast the current is screaming so hectically and water very cold at 60m or deeper so most times you fishing 20-40m where water is same temp as bottom at 60-80m in natal so you dont need braid to get down, most times I fish 0.55, sometimes 0.50 sometimes 0.60 depending on what reel gets grabbed, I hardly ever need more than a 5oz to get down..sometimes go lighter, sometimes when the current is screaming 6oz.. If your thumb is dumb get a level wind and with the clicker on let your bait down and you will never get an overwind bottom fishing..I used to fish bottoms with a grinder but after cutting off the other guys on mono when we had double and triple ups and got knitted up, and getting those dirty looks and loosing fish with the directness of the braid and hooks pulling and others..over it unless I have to or bass fishing LOL. With mono you can knit up and easy to unknit and land all fish, with braid impossible..Sure deep dropping braid but when I tune the guys here to go to the current and deep drop they just laugh at me..so how often one gets the conditions for that in those eastern waters..Sure I have commercial mates that fish KP's and 100lb braid but that is winch and fill the boat fishing, not much joy in that..If you want to go that style then a yoyo and handlyn is all you need!
Haha I can imagine off Kenton you trying to jig your bait up and down for mr rockcod by clicking the anti-reverse on and off and mr geelstert decides to spoil your fun and inhale your bait....hahahaha that'd end in tears bud as your handle spins around wildly and you break a few knuckles trying to get some sort of control and just when you think you stopped him and got your hands in place and rod is bent, you spend the next 5 minutes fighting mother earth as he reefed you long ago! That's the problem with fishing the east coast and going unprepared and trying to use gear that may not suit what you are trying to do..Mr proper fish comes along...and it ends in tears.

Last edited on Thu Nov 14th, 2019 06:25 pm by Dr halibut hoffman

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Fri Nov 15th, 2019 04:19 pm
  PM Quote Reply
8th Post
D5
Senior Member
 

Joined: Sat Oct 3rd, 2009
Location: JHB, South Africa
Posts: 314
Equipment: Shimano, Sonik , ABU,
Best Catch: 10kg common , 18.5 kg Cat
Favorite Fishing Spot: Tago
Boat: No
Club: no
Status: 
Online
Mana: 
Dr halibut hoffman wrote:
D5 wrote: benniejordaan wrote: 7' Travella jigging rods are awesome and that's what we use for the lighties but I don't like the single foot guides on the spinning version so replaced them with double foot guides. If the rod is too short it can be a pain especially if the fish circles and with a long trace. you need a longer rod to manage the trace. 8' is an ideal length and I recently bought an Okuma Metaloid rod for R1300 and I reckon that's a winner. Right length, strong guides and versatile. As for reels, we have been using the Penn slammers for about a year and a half now. Very robust and easy to fish with. Grinders would definitely be my choice for beginners / girls / or lazy asses like me.
I agree on Trevala - blank is good, eyes are far too soft  . I had to bend them back too many times.
Now my Trevala will be used only for catching bait and I have two Daiwa Saltiga Hiramasa that are miles ahead of trevala .I also had very same Okuma Metaloid and tip snapped due to defect in blank.
Grinder is really best for bottom but my Stella 20K has one set back as I cannot disengage anti reverse. You have to use grinder that has lever to disengage the anti reverse , that is where KP reels has advantage . Often seen when you do pull up few meters up and then drop few meters back , Rock Cod gets triggered and hits the bait .Constant opening the bail damages the braid . Does Penn Slammer has lever for anti reverse ? I see it has stainless gears and that is a must for this type of fishing .




Multiplier..gears made for winching..lever drag or clutch lever on star drag are made to be in reach without taking your hand off the knob, drag also..Grinder, antireverse trip sits under the reel and drag infront, both not reachable without taking hand off the handle, in the anti reverse case you gotta left hand it while holding the handle or it goes spinning. What an UNergonomic mess and I can recall loosing more than one or two big fish while I was fumbling trying to switch the antireverse back on after bumping the lever by mistake or fumbling on the drag while trying to fight a fish.

On a multiplier everything is there where you need it, you dont even have to take your eye off the fish to adjust anything. Regarding a KP..no anti reverse, dog etc..no gears no drag, a proper fish leaves you with broken knuckles..nuff said. Sure if you going commercial on the bek you can winch em up faster and get another but the limit only 2 fish these days so you may as well play your fish with a smooth drag and have some fun..
East coast the current is screaming so hectically and water very cold at 60m or deeper so most times you fishing 20-40m where water is same temp as bottom at 60-80m in natal so you dont need braid to get down, most times I fish 0.55, sometimes 0.50 sometimes 0.60 depending on what reel gets grabbed, I hardly ever need more than a 5oz to get down..sometimes go lighter, sometimes when the current is screaming 6oz.. If your thumb is dumb get a level wind and with the clicker on let your bait down and you will never get an overwind bottom fishing..I used to fish bottoms with a grinder but after cutting off the other guys on mono when we had double and triple ups and got knitted up, and getting those dirty looks and loosing fish with the directness of the braid and hooks pulling and others..over it unless I have to or bass fishing LOL. With mono you can knit up and easy to unknit and land all fish, with braid impossible..Sure deep dropping braid but when I tune the guys here to go to the current and deep drop they just laugh at me..so how often one gets the conditions for that in those eastern waters..Sure I have commercial mates that fish KP's and 100lb braid but that is winch and fill the boat fishing, not much joy in that..If you want to go that style then a yoyo and handlyn is all you need!
Haha I can imagine off Kenton you trying to jig your bait up and down for mr rockcod by clicking the anti-reverse on and off and mr geelstert decides to spoil your fun and inhale your bait....hahahaha that'd end in tears bud as your handle spins around wildly and you break a few knuckles trying to get some sort of control and just when you think you stopped him and got your hands in place and rod is bent, you spend the next 5 minutes fighting mother earth as he reefed you long ago! That's the problem with fishing the east coast and going unprepared and trying to use gear that may not suit what you are trying to do..Mr proper fish comes along...and it ends in tears.

I always enjoy your posts . I been through the KP school with very sour wrist - no more KP and Elbe 9ft for me .
I need KP Stella . What I mean - I would adjust drag first so line cannot brake . Anti reverse goes off . Open spool till sinker gets to the bottom . Close the bail . Now as we mainly do bottom on a drift - once sinker hits bottom - pull up 3 cranks so you do not get stuck on reef . Then pull 4 cranks up then immediately 4 cranks down and carry on like that . With that drum shape knob for Stella you cannot not loose the grip like on KP - no chance . Having no reverse is must as you need to adjust depth all the time during the drift by slowly testing depth by slowly cranking it in right direction and not opening the bail and hitting bottom . Multiplier just cannot do that . So that is my plan . Thinking of removing anti reverse but maybe there is a reel with such a strong gears like Stella and with anti reverse leaver so I don’t have to modify reel .

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Sat Nov 16th, 2019 07:56 am
  PM Quote Reply
9th Post
Dr halibut hoffman
Moderator


Joined: Wed Sep 16th, 2009
Location: Cape, South Africa
Posts: 2508
Equipment: Shimano, daiwa, a finnor and an elbe.. The rest died. ...
Best Catch: Shimano, daiwa, a finnor and an elbe.. The rest died. ...145cm FL Leervis released (Shore), 80kg+ yellowfin (Boat). 83cm Cracker. ...
Favorite Fishing Spot: Kranse en diepsee!
Boat: 15' Skicraft cat.Canoe. Crew on Buttcats.
Club: Ike jime,no club
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
My Gallery: 
That is what the clutch? lever is for, and your thumb on the spool giving some tension..and sinker..You hardly have to move a hand, to let the spool loose, drop it a few meters till sinker touched down and flip the lever back up and wind up 3 or four turns.. Yup that is what the machine is made for LOL.. Or put down big bait, half a jumbo mackerel, drag loose and clicker on and roll a smoke! ;) And just be ready to throw the twak on the floor and grab that rod! If something other than a pecker does manage to fit the bait down the hatch hahaha
Another thing, deeper than 20 meters, have a release weight handy for the breeders, and red and black steenbras and wreckfish, 74 etc. need to be released..

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Tue Nov 26th, 2019 05:21 pm
  PM Quote Reply
10th Post
benniejordaan
Offshore Moderator


Joined: Wed Nov 14th, 2007
Location: Durban, South Africa
Posts: 12407
Equipment: A few bits and pieces, nothing special.
Best Catch: Marlin
Favorite Fishing Spot: East coast
Boat: Seacat 520
Club: Fynnlands
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Everyone has great advice. But bear in mind that newbe kids need to use it. Overhead reels require guiding and laying line. A grinder is way simpler to use.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Tue Nov 26th, 2019 06:26 pm
  PM Quote Reply
11th Post
Dr halibut hoffman
Moderator


Joined: Wed Sep 16th, 2009
Location: Cape, South Africa
Posts: 2508
Equipment: Shimano, daiwa, a finnor and an elbe.. The rest died. ...
Best Catch: Shimano, daiwa, a finnor and an elbe.. The rest died. ...145cm FL Leervis released (Shore), 80kg+ yellowfin (Boat). 83cm Cracker. ...
Favorite Fishing Spot: Kranse en diepsee!
Boat: 15' Skicraft cat.Canoe. Crew on Buttcats.
Club: Ike jime,no club
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
My Gallery: 
Ja hundred percent..but that's what level winds are for, but then you can't use your reel in the surf once you learn how to use it so give and take. Depends on your application too. Small reef fish grinders are perfect, east cape reefs for geelbek where yellowtail might ck you up, you had better have a decent grinder or else its gonna end in tears.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Tue Dec 3rd, 2019 12:31 pm
  PM Quote Reply
12th Post
benniejordaan
Offshore Moderator


Joined: Wed Nov 14th, 2007
Location: Durban, South Africa
Posts: 12407
Equipment: A few bits and pieces, nothing special.
Best Catch: Marlin
Favorite Fishing Spot: East coast
Boat: Seacat 520
Club: Fynnlands
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
We see big Geelbek here too, spawning stock and average size probably larger than you get in EC. Western Cape gets the real big ones. We've caught plenty with 4000 size reels. But a 8000 size reel would be spot on for anything you expect a kid to land. But hey, everyone will have their own opinion.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Tue Dec 3rd, 2019 01:02 pm
  PM Quote Reply
13th Post
Ant86
Sealiner


Joined: Mon Jan 25th, 2010
Location: JHB, South Africa
Posts: 1334
Equipment: A tin of Lucky Star and a bottle of Rum
Best Catch: Czech Nymph, safely shagged and released
Favorite Fishing Spot: Billy the Bums
Boat: 7ft Jose Cuervo Lido
Club: .
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
I'm with Bennie, I went on my first bottoms fishing trip after fishing for a good ten years (although mainly freshwater) and I absolutely hated that KP lol. I said to myself I would never waste money on a charter again unless they would let me fish with my own grinder. I read somewhere in the thread something about the anti-reverse switch on grinders, those are frshwater grinders. That button has been removed to better seal the reels. I have now even used my grinders to troll and worked fine, caught some decent size Couta without missing a beat

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Tue Dec 3rd, 2019 08:11 pm
  PM Quote Reply
14th Post
Dr halibut hoffman
Moderator


Joined: Wed Sep 16th, 2009
Location: Cape, South Africa
Posts: 2508
Equipment: Shimano, daiwa, a finnor and an elbe.. The rest died. ...
Best Catch: Shimano, daiwa, a finnor and an elbe.. The rest died. ...145cm FL Leervis released (Shore), 80kg+ yellowfin (Boat). 83cm Cracker. ...
Favorite Fishing Spot: Kranse en diepsee!
Boat: 15' Skicraft cat.Canoe. Crew on Buttcats.
Club: Ike jime,no club
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
My Gallery: 
Ja the grinders work, but our issue is less the geelbek and more the tackle busters that like to sometimes shoal with them..but ja fish what you are comfortable with..and what is comfortable to fish with and handles the fish that might pick up the bait you are dropping in the the waters you are fishing..

Back To Top PM Quote Reply


Current time is 04:06 pm  
SEALINE - South African Angling and Boating Community > Offshore Angling > Offshore Angling Discussion > Advice needed Bottom Fishing - Rods and Reels Top