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A different perspective to catch and release  Rate Topic 
 
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 Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 07:57 am
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milt
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Mana: 
Generally I catch and release when i feel i have caught enough for a feed and obviously under sized fish whether they have a chance of making it or not.

I read an interesting topic on another forum about whether or not to release bigger fully grown resident fish. Some had the view that:

Sure the fully grown fish were generally a female with lots of eggs but the eggs had a higher mortality rate than say medium sized fish.

The fully grown fish consumed more prey around the areas they reside increasing competition for smaller healthier fish so its probably a good thing to take one home with you?

Fully grown fish weren't all that great to eat and were prown to more diseases like in our eldelry human relations :D not that i plan on eating one anytime soon.

What do you think?

Milt,

 

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 Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 12:14 pm
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dalkill
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Mana: 
We had this type of discussion on another thread, with Matis and Miles giving some valid points, but I think this topic was under a conservation thread, thus was not discussed fully so as to not hijack that thread.

I was of the opinion that a bigger fish had done it's job and by taking home the bigger fish, and throwing back two smaller ones, the numbers you releasing would be more beneficial. I thought by increasing the number of released fish, one actually makes the odds better of at least one of them getting it on with a partner . If we kept the smaller ones and released the big one, then he had one chance of replicating. The two smaller ones had a 50/50 chance of at least one of them surviving till the breeding season.

Mantis and Miles however where of the opinion that the bigger ones is more verile and could convince the females much easier, being the alpha males and all that or the females being able to produce more egss etc.

I think it's a case of to each his own. As long as we are doing it for the right reason, its all good.

The other prob is, how do you know if you gonna catch the bigger one. Places like the baan your chances are always good that the bigger one is out there. I would venture to say it's a 75% chance of hitting the bigger one during it's peak season. So for me releasing a 35cm stump is no prob as I know out there is the big one.
But what does one do when ,even in summer in False bay, if you catch a 45cm kob, the decision is much more difficult. This is legal size to take home, and is a nice pan sized fish, are you gonna put this one back not knowing when you will catch one again, and you really smaak some fresh kob, season with lemon, freshly gound salt and pepper, stuffed with tomato, onion, green pepper and just a dash of hot tobasco sauce for the skop.

OK, so I have not caught a kob in about two years now and really smaak one, So if this was my 45cm kob right now, I would certainly keep it :D

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 Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 12:24 pm
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BRENDON
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you just made me hungry

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 Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 12:27 pm
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ICTHYES
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Mana: 
would like than expert view

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 Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 12:28 pm
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milt
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Mana: 
Actually dalkill i think i remember the thread your talking about. Its an interesting topic and I think it depends on the species in question as perhaps some fish produce healthy off spring when they are fully grown and some do not?

Its almost dinner time over this end of the world and you have just excited my stomach.

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 Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 12:40 pm
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Mantis
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Mana: 
guys, i spent many many hours researching this for an article. unfortunately it wouldn't be right for me to post the findings here. once the article has been published and had its run, i'll ask permission to post it here. what i can tell you is this, as rules of thumb (because there are no absolutes), this is the deal:

1. smaller fish have a higher mortality rate after release so it makes sense to release the bigger ones, plus they are the breeding stock and create more offspring than their juvenile counterparts.

2. if the hook has been swallowed, regardless of size or species you should take it for the pan. IT WILL DIE, probably within 6 hours

3. (this one is bound to be controversial but i have researched FACTS not theories and conjecture). whether stainless, brass or mild steel, hooks will NEVER rust out. they may snap off at the shank, but they will not rust out. fishing barbless changes this, because it gives the hook a fair chance of working its way out through natural movement). the infection caused will in all likeliehood kill the fish.

4. hooking location is the greatest contributor to mortality, so circle hooks are undoubtedly the way forward. physiological stress is the other biggest contributor to mortality. so quick releases, with minimal handling (prefereably not even removed from the water) will help a lot. plus use heavier tackle to stop the fishing fighting to the death.

 

those are the basics, i hope i get to show you guys the article soon.

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 Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 01:02 pm
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milt
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Mana: 
I look forward to it Mantis, many thanks.

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 Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 01:22 pm
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Razeen
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Mana: 
dalkill wrote: But what does one do when ,even in summer in False bay, if you catch a 45cm kob, the decision is much more difficult. This is legal size to take home, 
So if this was my 45cm kob right now, I would certainly keep it :D


Dalkill

I'm sure the legal size is 60cm and not 45cm

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 Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 01:57 pm
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Fish Feeder
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Mana: 
Maybe use a shorter tape with shorter cm's

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 Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 04:43 pm
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zzzz
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Mana: 
dalkill wrote: But what does one do when ,even in summer in False bay, if you catch a 45cm kob, the decision is much more difficult. This is legal size to take home, and is a nice pan sized fish, are you gonna put this one back not knowing when you will catch one again, and you really smaak some fresh kob, season with lemon, freshly gound salt and pepper, stuffed with tomato, onion, green pepper and just a dash of hot tobasco sauce for the skop.

OK, so I have not caught a kob in about two years now and really smaak one, So if this was my 45cm kob right now, I would certainly keep it :D


I have such funny visions in my head now of you saying that LMAO oh dear this is too good, i would like to just buy a fish and put it on your hook to satisfy your "smaak"

Thanks for a lekker laugh man :clap12  :cel:  :clap12  :cel:

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 Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 04:53 pm
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dalkill
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Mana: 
the last time I caught a kob it was still about 45cm :D

This might have changed now.

I know whoever that the limit east of Agulhus is much stricter than west of it. last time we went to Witsands, I checked on the limit and bag limit was one comapred to 3  / 4 in CT.

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 Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 05:05 pm
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ICTHYES
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http://www.advocatesforanimals.org.uk/resources/farmed/fish.html

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 Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 05:23 pm
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Visvinger
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Mana: 
dalkill wrote: the last time I caught a kob it was still about 45cm :D

This might have changed now.

I know whoever that the limit east of Agulhus is much stricter than west of it. last time we went to Witsands, I checked on the limit and bag limit was one comapred to 3  / 4 in CT.


According to the electronic version of the Recreational angling brochure available on MCM's website any Kob caught west of Cape Agulhas are subject to a minimum size of 50cm with a bag limit of 5 fish per person per day.

Kob caught in estuaries or from the shore east of Cape Agulhas are subject to a minimum size of 60cm and a bag limit of one fish per day. Other limits exist for offshore fishing for kob east of Cape Agulhas.

Last edited on Wed Jul 4th, 2007 05:25 pm by Visvinger

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 Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 07:53 pm
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dalkill
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Mana: 
thanks visvinger.

had an idea it was round about there. 50cm kob is not a small feesh,  but if you look at some of the fish checkers sell.

I took a pick of it on my phone but still has to get it off there to post it.

Many of them are way under 50cm. Do commercial fisheries have lesser limits than us okes? I raised the very same issue with the store manager of Checker Canal walk a while ago about the size of the stumps they have there. It was disgusting. If you reaaalllyy streched those fish it would just about make 25cm. When I asked him about it, he wanted to weight the thing. I told him I was not interested in the weight but the lenght.

He said he would have a word with his buyer. Guees 'the word' fell on deaf ears if the kob sizes are anything to go by. And the condition of those fish. Eyes we sukken and bloodshot, flesh pale. I'm so glad I catch my own, else I would never eat fish.

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 Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 08:05 pm
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Visvinger
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Mana: 
Dalkill, as far as I know, the commercial fishing industry has got different size restrictions to that of the recreational angler. For example: Recreational anglers are only allowed to catch 4 crayfish of which the carapace measures 80mm whereas the commercial crayfishers are allowed to take crayfish with a carapace length of 60 or 65mm. I'm sure that the same applies to the commercial exploitation of fish stocks eg Kob, Stumpnose, etc.

Maybe someone else can also shed some light on this subject?

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 Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 08:45 pm
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Pylstert
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Dallkill

report the Checkers store to SASSI, South African Sustainable Seafood Initiative, they will nail him. It is certainly illegal. http://www.panda.org.za/sassi/about.html or jbarendse@wwf.org.za

Cheers

Leon

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 Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 09:04 pm
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Mantis
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Mana: 
now that is great advice....nail them for sure!

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 Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 11:17 pm
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ghost
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Mana: 
dalkill wrote: But what does one do when ,even in summer in False bay, if you catch a 45cm kob, the decision is much more difficult. This is legal size to take home, and is a nice pan sized fish, are you gonna put this one back not knowing when you will catch one again, and you really smaak some fresh kob,


Legal size for cob

Kob caught in estuaries and
from shore(west of Cape Agulhas) 50cm baglimit 5

Kob caught in estuaries and
from shore(east of Cape Agulhas) 60cm baglimit 1

Last edited on Wed Jul 4th, 2007 11:26 pm by ghost

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 Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 11:26 pm
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miles
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Mana: 
Hiya

Commercially, the kreef guys are allowed a smaller size. Apparently the market is greater for the smaller sizes....... Absolutely confuses me as to WHY they're allowed to take the samller sizes and the recreationals not........

For edible fish, the recreational sizes for cob, snoek, geelbek, yellowtail, roman, redstumps, white stumps etc, etc are EXACTLY the same as the sizes the commercials are supposed to catch. How-ever, manyy unscrupulous fisherman DO target these smaller sized fish and as you know, there's ALWAYS a market for fish........... Sad, but true.....

Regards

miles

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 Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 11:28 pm
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Ajay
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Mana: 
I hope SASSI has the teeth but seriously doubt it. The buyers are the real problem here not the store manager any other person who can deflect blame claiming ignorance. The buyers bought the undersize stuff from the commercials and it was  probably size and undersize fish mixed up together. Then it gets sold to Checkers or whoever  and they are off scott free because that part of the chain (fishbuyer to retailer) is almost impossible to police currently.So buyers take chances to make bucks. And retailers say "we didnt know what the length was........thay came without heads on..........."

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