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Should Seine Netting be Banned?
   
   
   
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Banning of Seine Netting  Rating:  Rating
 
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 Posted: Tue Dec 4th, 2012 04:41 am $report_button
   
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RobinF
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Mana: 
Seine netting or treknetting has been around a long time. It's is an old method of fishing that results in a massive amount of bycatch (lots of smaller fish and or 'other' fish that are not intended to be caught). These fish very often die during the netting process. The environmental impact on an area where this takes place is devastating as so much 'unintended' species are caught. The government has many a time considered banning this type of fishing, but has never done it. Recently the Vetches Beach/Pier seine netters illegally caught and slaughtered more than 115 Garrick. So this topic has flared up again at senior level, so this post is very relevant. Please vote!

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 Posted: Tue Dec 4th, 2012 06:18 pm $report_button
   
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jb2
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Hi Robin

A charter boat was bust with over 100 shad. Please don't ask for the banning of charter boats.

 

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 Posted: Wed Dec 5th, 2012 02:37 am $report_button
   
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RobinF
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Mana: 
JB2 that is a ridiculous comment and I thought you of all people, doing what you do for a living would have a more mature comment than that. This poll if for interest sake. Over the last couple of years, there have been credible reports of Seine Netters in KZN making a lot of illegal catches and numerous studies regarding the viability of this type of fishing. This is not something I just dreamed up.

As a member of this forum, I'm entitled to post a poll, I should not have to have that poll undermined. Just vote no rather, please.

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 Posted: Wed Dec 5th, 2012 03:54 am $report_button
   
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jb2
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Mana: 
RobinF wrote: JB2 that is a ridiculous comment and I thought you of all people, doing what you do for a living would have a more mature comment than that. This poll if for interest sake. Over the last couple of years, there have been credible reports of Seine Netters in KZN making a lot of illegal catches and numerous studies regarding the viability of this type of fishing. This is not something I just dreamed up.

As a member of this forum, I'm entitled to post a poll, I should not have to have that poll undermined. Just vote no rather, please.


Hi Robin

I understand your reaction but my comment is not ridiculous.

Your question is "A group of fishers have been involved in breaking the law, should we ban the fishery?"

The series of contraventions by charterers should not lead to the banning of charter fishing.

The question that you pose is not really a "yes"  or "no" question.

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 Posted: Wed Dec 5th, 2012 04:31 am $report_button
   
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Cpt. Hook
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Mana: 
I would be happy if those netters there by DSBC are gone for ever. They have plundered to much already and IMO their time is up and they must move on. They have broken the law too many times and gotten away with it.

As for charters that plunder, my feelings are the same

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 Posted: Wed Dec 5th, 2012 04:36 am $report_button
   
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RobinF
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Mana: 
Ok JB2, well why don't you start up a poll on that topic of should Charters be banned then?

I'll be happy to vote.

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 Posted: Wed Dec 5th, 2012 04:38 am $report_button
   
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Cpt. Hook
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Mana: 
Calm down boys....:fbash

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 Posted: Wed Dec 5th, 2012 04:38 am $report_button
   
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Alien Invader
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Mana: 
I dont think they should be banned just better managed/policed.... Guys holding permits need to inform the relevant authorities of where and when they will be using nets and expect a surprise visit... When and if we use/need nets we inform local nature conservation, get the relevant permits and do what needs to be done knowing that they could pop there head around the corner at any moment... Effective policing is needed. My opinion is we cant slate an entire industry because of one or two people... Same goes for rock & surf, charters, commercial fisherman, weekend warriors,fresh water etc etc etc etc.... Weed out the bad apples,,, However, sometimes things happen and the wrong specie gets nailed/destroyed in other forms as well, (Spotted cob/74's - Juvenile Coppers or under sized fish etc) We need to try and limit this and have it effectively policed.. I'm under correction here but i'm sure the natal parks board have confiscated nets as well as a vehicle because it was used to commit a crime.... This could be a way to enforce this...

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 Posted: Wed Dec 5th, 2012 04:49 am $report_button
   
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RobinF
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Mana: 
Hi Alien Invader,

I initially started out with the same view. I honestly thought that this can be managed, but the deeper I dug the more clear it became that our Coastal Management guys just cannot cope. Then there is the threatening and intimidation of members of the public that take photo's of the catches that these guys make. It all just spiraled down as I dug more and more. It's a sad situation and if you look into it and research it, you'll be shocked at the reports.

Hey Fishing Adventures, I'm totally calm....

Regards
Robin

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 Posted: Wed Dec 5th, 2012 04:50 am $report_button
   
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Fin-S
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Mana: 
To date I have seen no CONCLUSIVE PROOF of the netters breaking the law. There has been lots of hearsay, lots of heavy breathing, fire and damnation stuff....but no proof.
As a result I vote no.
If you can prove that the law has been contravened, then I would remove this persons right to fish - I would still not ban netting completely.
A ban is an easy way out and is the thin end of the wedge.
Look at coppers.....
My worry is that once we get onto a roll of banning, there is little knowledge or desire from our Ministerial component to investigate other conservation alternatives. It will therefore not be long before any infringement is met with a total ban.

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 Posted: Wed Dec 5th, 2012 04:59 am $report_button
   
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Cpt. Hook
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Mana: 
Fin-S wrote:
To date I have seen no CONCLUSIVE PROOF of the netters breaking the law. There has been lots of hearsay, lots of heavy breathing, fire and damnation stuff....but no proof.
As a result I vote no.
If you can prove that the law has been contravened, then I would remove this persons right to fish - I would still not ban netting completely.
A ban is an easy way out and is the thin end of the wedge.
Look at coppers.....
My worry is that once we get onto a roll of banning, there is little knowledge or desire from our Ministerial component to investigate other conservation alternatives. It will therefore not be long before any infringement is met with a total ban.


I agree with you on removing and banning that offending person, and not the industry.

My vote was yes for this specific guy. Unfortunately concrete proof has been handed over in the past by several persons and nothing happened and it all gets swept under the carpet

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 Posted: Wed Dec 5th, 2012 05:00 am $report_button
   
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RobinF
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Mana: 
Fin-S, Thanks for the vote:

IOL news article 22 December 2011 - "In recent weeks, he has had several confrontations with Ezemvelo KZN Wildlife officials, who bust him for allegedly netting banned fish. It is also believed Ezemvelo has recommended to the Department of Sea Fisheries that seine netting be banned."

Fin-S, please don't get me wrong, I totally respect your views. Thanks again for voting.

 

Fin-S wrote: To date I have seen no CONCLUSIVE PROOF of the netters breaking the law. There has been lots of hearsay, lots of heavy breathing, fire and damnation stuff....but no proof.
As a result I vote no.
If you can prove that the law has been contravened, then I would remove this persons right to fish - I would still not ban netting completely.
A ban is an easy way out and is the thin end of the wedge.
Look at coppers.....
My worry is that once we get onto a roll of banning, there is little knowledge or desire from our Ministerial component to investigate other conservation alternatives. It will therefore not be long before any infringement is met with a total ban.

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 Posted: Wed Dec 5th, 2012 05:01 am $report_button
   
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Cpt. Hook
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Mana: 
Fin-S wrote:
To date I have seen no CONCLUSIVE PROOF of the netters breaking the law. There has been lots of hearsay, lots of heavy breathing, fire and damnation stuff....but no proof.
As a result I vote no.
If you can prove that the law has been contravened, then I would remove this persons right to fish - I would still not ban netting completely.
A ban is an easy way out and is the thin end of the wedge.
Look at coppers.....
My worry is that once we get onto a roll of banning, there is little knowledge or desire from our Ministerial component to investigate other conservation alternatives. It will therefore not be long before any infringement is met with a total ban.


Double Post

Last edited on Wed Dec 5th, 2012 05:03 am by Cpt. Hook

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 Posted: Wed Dec 5th, 2012 05:03 am $report_button
   
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RobinF
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Last edited on Wed Dec 5th, 2012 05:16 am by RobinF

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 Posted: Wed Dec 5th, 2012 05:55 am $report_button
   
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Alien Invader
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Fin-S wrote:
To date I have seen no CONCLUSIVE PROOF of the netters breaking the law. There has been lots of hearsay, lots of heavy breathing, fire and damnation stuff....but no proof.
As a result I vote no.
If you can prove that the law has been contravened, then I would remove this persons right to fish - I would still not ban netting completely.
A ban is an easy way out and is the thin end of the wedge.
Look at coppers.....
My worry is that once we get onto a roll of banning, there is little knowledge or desire from our Ministerial component to investigate other conservation alternatives. It will therefore not be long before any infringement is met with a total ban.

I'm with you on this one... it will simply become to easy to ban something without the proper investigation done...
In my opinion we are not to far from this already,,, it's way cheaper to ban something than to commission a research project. Home/land owners on rivers/estuaries have already started the ball rolling and could back fire,,, jetski's being banned because of damage to mud banks by sucking up prawn,,,, Booze cruisers ok though, props digging through the mud is not so bad. lol! Tick tock!

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 Posted: Wed Dec 5th, 2012 05:56 am $report_button
   
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jb2
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Mana: 
RobinF wrote: Ok JB2, well why don't you start up a poll on that topic of should Charters be banned then?

I'll be happy to vote.


Hi Robin

The difficulty that you have is that you are asking that non compliance should lead to banning of an entire fishery. Your main suggestion is that banning should be the response where enforcement is highly problematic or has proved unhelpful.

This is a very dangerous and double edged sword that could easily be wielded against us as recreationals.

I do not know the KZN netters, I once saw them net sardines when I was in KZN on holiday but I have no interest in their welfare.

My main concern is the insistence that complete fishery closures should be used as  a management measure where there are less severe measures that could target the individual transgressions.

The Durban charter industry seems to have a few bad apples but I would dispute your call for banning in this case.

I understand that the shad run in KZN can turn into a complete dog show at times with violence and blatant non compliance. I would still not call for the banning of shad fishing in the areas where they make a showing.

The runs of small  kabeljou in the Cape and the attendant slaughter by recreationals is incredibly depressing. I would still not call for a banning of recreational fishing for kob when there are a lot of small fish around.

All that I am saying is "Becareful what you ask for, you might just get it!"

 

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 Posted: Wed Dec 5th, 2012 06:18 am $report_button
   
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RobinF
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Mana: 
Hi JB2,

Your point is very valid, and I see what your saying. Thank you for that reply.

There is 'method in my madness' with this poll, it's stirs up emotion and it allows us to see both sides. As you can see we have both supporters and non-supporters voting, and that in itself is positive. It's important for us as fishing community to share thoughts and ideas to promote sustainable fishing and prevent the destruction of our resources. The fact is that I am against that form of fishing, but it still exists. I am very interested to see how many other people share my views and those that don't.

I am not on a witch hunt with this poll, it's a very interesting and emotional topic and the results will be of intense interest to me and others. It's a good topic. The fact is the poll could be in favour of keeping Seine Netting, I have no control over the results. 

Regards
Robin

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 Posted: Wed Dec 5th, 2012 06:28 am $report_button
   
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jb2
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Mana: 
RobinF wrote: Hi JB2,

Your point is very valid, and I see what your saying. Thank you for that reply.

There is 'method in my madness' with this poll, it's stirs up emotion and it allows us to see both sides. As you can see we have both supporters and non-supporters voting, and that in itself is positive. It's important for us as fishing community to share thoughts and ideas to promote sustainable fishing and prevent the destruction of our resources. The fact is that I am against that form of fishing, but it still exists. I am very interested to see how many other people share my views and those that don't.

I am not on a witch hunt with this poll, it's a very interesting and emotional topic and the results will be of intense interest to me and others. It's a good topic. The fact is the poll could be in favour of keeping Seine Netting, I have no control over the results. 

Regards
Robin

Hi Robin

I am worried about your suggestion of stirring up emotion. I would hope that fisheries management decisions are made coldly and dispassionately.

It would be a huge help if you could let us know how the DAFF scientists view the KZN fishery.

Has there been a change in policy in recent years?

Where netters previously confined to sardines? Is their current authorisation a permanent allocation or is it something more tenuous?

Was the change in policy made contrary to scientific advice?

I don't know the answers but those are some of the questions that I would ask if I wanted to start "krapping" properly. (nudge, nudge wink, wink ;-) )

You posted a link to Dr. Lamberth's email in another thread. Have you asked him these questions yet?


 

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 Posted: Wed Dec 5th, 2012 06:54 am $report_button
   
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Mana: 
RobinF

Before I begin, I have voted against seine netting..before we get off on the wrong foot again..

I ask again: Is it at all possible that you or someone in the know can provide us with the applicable info re: "the slaughter" as far as facts go? hearsay and presumptions can only lead to more issues, There are plenty of us DBN locals on this forum yet I am still to see or hear of any info from the locals,

This family of "vetches seine netters" have held the same authority/ licence for many many years, they have been pulling those nets since I was a kid more than 30yrs ago.. surely if they had been up to no good their annual licence would have been revoked, pulled or not re Issued?

The number of times I have witnessed these guys pulling nets their by catch has been returned to the water, less the odd DOA, but I would still like to see the netting halted in order for the area that surrounds Vetchies to become the marine protected area (MPA) that it is supposed to be..

With that said, Do you think there are political, racial or some other dark forces at play that these guys have hung onto their right to be the ONE and ONLY authorized seine netters on the Dbn beachfront? (less the annual sardine netters that appear during the sardine run)

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 Posted: Wed Dec 5th, 2012 07:56 am $report_button
   
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RobinF
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Mana: 
Hi MISA,

If you are asking me to give you proof of the 115+ Garrick, I cannot. I have three people that witnessed the capture and one witnessed the sale. Their account of this incident are all the same. But, they refuse to give formal statements because they park their vehicles right outside the netter's facility and as such are afraid. I can't force these guys. Some of the guys have had calls late at night and some get quietly told to be careful or else. It's so difficult for them. And thus, that is why so many are so quiet. You yourself have noticed that they are so quiet, right? Ask yourself why that is? The answer becomes obvious. Most have families, so I cannot blame them.

What I do know is that a lot of issues that arise with this netter and his catches are conveniently rubbed out. Corruption? According to what I have been told, it appears so. Proof? No.

As you know, this is all about tradition, the handing down of the lic from father to son. I do think that as a start, they should revoke any lic where the guys are catching illegally. I will never believe that any netter has his lic because of race. Maybe I am naive like that, but for me I am completely colour-blind (Figuratively).

Regards
Robin

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