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Scratching Rod advice  Rate Topic 
 
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 Posted: Mon Dec 5th, 2016 10:03 am
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2Shad!
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Location: PORT SHEPSTONE, South Africa
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Best Catch: Steenbras 15kg
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Hi to all Sealiners.
I have become somewhat of a scratching specialist in my area of the South Coast and over the last 10 years have been on a quest to find the right tools for my conditions. I have found by trial and error that just as one club in your bag won’t make your golf successful, neither can there be one rod for all conditions. What I am particularly asking for is advice on a rod or blank for very specific conditions and for my style. This is going to be difficult to keep precise I can see.

Between low and mid spring tide (about 3 hours) when there is rolling foam with bouncy water, I can fish pre-dentified pockets. These are only 30 to 50 meters out in fairly shallow water. The scratching can be excellent all year round on a 2oz sinker and small bait on a “helicopter” rig. When the tide gets higher or conditions rougher I change to a 12 foot Pentagon light with a SL20 and 3-4oz sinker, perfect for me. Back to the 2 oz. setup. So accuracy is important, not long casts, break-offs frequent, it is rough underfoot and wet. I use a grinder (soon to get a new reel probably Fin Nor Lethal), 30 lb braid and 25 lb maxima leader (long). Target species mainly Bronze and Stone Bream, Rock Cod, Shad, small Cracker and Cob, Cave Bass. That sort of thing.

I have tried many rods, chopped some shorter, but not there yet. I have tried the Poseidon ultra-light (borrowed) and broke it. It was too stiff anyway. I am currently trying a Blue Marlin Raptor 316. Slightly too short and poor quality single foot guides which keep breaking. A full list of rods I have tried can be provided if useful. Following is a list of key requirements as far as I can be certain, but I am trying to also be open minded.

Rod length: 11 foot.
Reel mount height: 30 cm exactly– spinning configuration
Fore grip length: 40 cm
Blank specs: Stiffish mid and but section, not too fussy about the tip. Like the Raptor and Purglass 350/0 action. Purglass 3000c too slow. Must be sensitive.
Rod weight: Not really an issue but must be tough.
Guides: Good quality, braid ready, double foot.

Lastly, I am not one for aesthetics and pretty finishes. Just a practical tool for this specific requirement. Any tips, suggestions I will gladly research. Any more info I will also gladly provide.

Last edited on Mon Dec 5th, 2016 10:10 am by 2Shad!

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 Posted: Mon Dec 5th, 2016 10:58 am
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Dr halibut hoffman
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Joined: Wed Sep 16th, 2009
Location: Cape, South Africa
Posts: 2666
Equipment: Shimano, daiwa, a finnor and an elbe.. The rest died. ...
Best Catch: Shimano, daiwa, a finnor and an elbe.. The rest died. ...145cm FL Leervis released (Shore), 80kg+ yellowfin (Boat). 83cm Cracker. ...
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My last stick was a custom and I am so happy with it. Based on the top 2 pieces of a 3 piece blue marlin blank, 10ft but not for scratching though. I also had my exceller 9'6" re-custom built and butt lengthened to a 10' as I am a lang been chap. This is my light spinning rod, not for scratching either..The action for example of the 9'6" is perfect while the longer exceller blanks are just that tad too stiff for my application. That just to illustrate that being able to tweak and setup a blank for what you need makes all the difference. My heavy grinder spinning rod (11ft exage) come to think of it, I also had rebuilt with decent fuji eyes and a bit of love and it throws like a different rod, rod action is crisper and rod is lighter and whether I get better distance or not, I get less fatigue, casting heavy lures all day is a pleasure.

So I'm basically saying if you want that rod just for that task, get it built for you custom, it is well worth it. Blank-wise in 11ft, to throw between 2 and 4oz, I'd look at the 10'6" oval blank, custom with a few inches added to the butt if possible, or left as is with a guide system that gives the extra few metres you need on a cast that you want the longer rod for, or good blank with the correct and light eyes that give the tip the crisp recovery that translates into the extra metres that are needed.

Enigma here had a hand in the design of that blank and is around here, so direct some questions his way. I've fished the 12' and 10'6" oval and they are really nice. The 12' is a beast, too much for light scratching. I think that the oval is the best value of blank you'll get for your bucks in SA, BM also. With a custom stick your options open up to get exactly what you need though.

You should see grootvis' "golf club" collection haha he just builds himself a rod or 2 for each new application he has.. :)

Last edited on Mon Dec 5th, 2016 11:05 am by Dr halibut hoffman

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 Posted: Mon Dec 5th, 2016 01:12 pm
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IWyk
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Joined: Tue Oct 28th, 2014
Location: Centurion & Hibberdene, South Africa
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Equipment: Purglas 400/2, 400/4, 350/2, 12ft6 oval DC custom, 10ft6 oval ...
Best Catch: Raggie 220kg, Barbel 31kg, Catface 7.2kg, Zambies, Blacktip, Hammer
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10'6 Oval DC(1-4 ounce) with Low riders(Custom)-Grinder and/or Multiplier.

12'6 Oval DC(1-4 Ounce) with low riders (Custom)-Grinder and/or Multiplier. Bit longer depend what you need.

11ft Sensation short range(1-4 Ounce) Old blank if you can get one. This is a carp blank but the spinning reel seat not so high up, multiplier may be a problem- comes standard with low riders. Awesome rod for the price and application.

Old model 300/1 Purglas blank(1 piece), refit with low riders and extend butt(I have one of these on the way-Craig is fitting the new guides and extending the butt section!) I recon it is gonna be awesome. Specifically for bronze bream etc. in the gully's.

Between my wife, son, daughter and myself we use these and they are great.

Nice thing is you can also spin with them if the shad are on the bite, very versatile.

The 12' Oval DC 3-5 as mentioned is way too much rod for this job and was designed for plugging for GT's.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 5th, 2016 04:14 pm
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A007M21
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Joined: Tue Feb 17th, 2015
Location: George, South Africa
Posts: 196
Equipment: Shimano Grinders & Blue Marlin Rods
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Mana: 
I use the Blue Marlin Raptor 316 for scratching and its the best thing ever. I have the double foot guides version though. I haven't had a single issue with the guides yet and have had the rod for over a year now - I do however clean my tackle extensively after every single trip.

If the guides do ever get vrot I'll just upgrade them to K-Series or Low Riders - something you should maybe give a try with your Raptor?

I've landed the usual reef species, shad, kob, blue rays and even a few hound and spotted gully sharks on that rod.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 5th, 2016 04:17 pm
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A007M21
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Joined: Tue Feb 17th, 2015
Location: George, South Africa
Posts: 196
Equipment: Shimano Grinders & Blue Marlin Rods
Best Catch: GT
Favorite Fishing Spot: Anywhere that has water!
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Mana: 
Oh and with regards to sinker weight on the Raptor - don't be afraid to push it with that rod - it will surprise you! I throw 4oz with a redbait or white mussel bait if the conditions are rough, or a 3oz with good size chokka or half a pilchard size bait

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 Posted: Mon Dec 5th, 2016 04:35 pm
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Psy
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Two Shad

have a read of this older thread.....

http://www.sealine.co.za/view_topic.php?id=85235&forum_id=1


I saw the rod in action (paired with a Penn squall 15 loaded with braid) for the past few days....see comments on post 28...i will not say anymore other than its a perfectly powerfully balanced combo that will endure many years.

heres another:

http://www.sealine.co.za/view_topic.php?id=105070&forum_id=115

::tight:

Last edited on Mon Dec 5th, 2016 05:09 pm by Psy

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 Posted: Mon Dec 5th, 2016 05:05 pm
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IWyk
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Joined: Tue Oct 28th, 2014
Location: Centurion & Hibberdene, South Africa
Posts: 1374
Equipment: Purglas 400/2, 400/4, 350/2, 12ft6 oval DC custom, 10ft6 oval ...
Best Catch: Raggie 220kg, Barbel 31kg, Catface 7.2kg, Zambies, Blacktip, Hammer
Favorite Fishing Spot: Lower South coast(Hibberdene to Port Edward), Vaal river
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Mana: 
Psy wrote:
Two Shad

have a read of this older thread.....

http://www.sealine.co.za/view_topic.php?id=105240&forum_id=10

I saw the rod in action (paired with a Penn squall 15 loaded with braid) for the past few days....see comments on post 28...i will not say anymore other than its a perfectly powerfully balanced combo that will endure many years.

::tight:


@ PSY link is for this thread, please post the other one, thx.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 5th, 2016 05:10 pm
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Psy
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Equipment: Blue Marlin's/Assasins/Pentagons c/w Shimano's
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Mana: 
IWyk wrote:
Psy wrote:
Two Shad

have a read of this older thread.....

http://www.sealine.co.za/view_topic.php?id=105240&forum_id=10

I saw the rod in action (paired with a Penn squall 15 loaded with braid) for the past few days....see comments on post 28...i will not say anymore other than its a perfectly powerfully balanced combo that will endure many years.

::tight:


@ PSY link is for this thread, please post the other one, thx.



:hyst::hyst::hyst:


shotalot.....i fixed it above....


::tight:


((goodp_:hyst::hyst::hyst::hyst::hyst::hyst:

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 Posted: Mon Dec 5th, 2016 05:13 pm
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IWyk
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Joined: Tue Oct 28th, 2014
Location: Centurion & Hibberdene, South Africa
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Equipment: Purglas 400/2, 400/4, 350/2, 12ft6 oval DC custom, 10ft6 oval ...
Best Catch: Raggie 220kg, Barbel 31kg, Catface 7.2kg, Zambies, Blacktip, Hammer
Favorite Fishing Spot: Lower South coast(Hibberdene to Port Edward), Vaal river
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;)t(((up((

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 Posted: Mon Dec 5th, 2016 05:55 pm
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2Shad!
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Joined: Wed Mar 13th, 2013
Location: PORT SHEPSTONE, South Africa
Posts: 29
Equipment: Far too much of the wrong stuff. Changes all the ...
Best Catch: Steenbras 15kg
Favorite Fishing Spot: Pumula KZN
Boat: NONE
Club: NO
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Mana: 
thanks so much for the enthusiastic advice as usual from Sealiners. So much to think about. tackle quality is so important as I have found out. Other than no sardines anymore we have three main problems here on the "Suipkus" called the three Rs. Rain Rust and Relatives. I am not familiar with low rider guides, we just use sommer fuji guides. Difinitely going to ask the local rod builder at Gremlins about them. Was going to do Pac Bays on the Raptor for spinning. Caught some nice kingies from Stebel rocks on that rod with couta casting spoons. Used to walk there from my house but a bit dangerous these days. Waiting for them to arrive any day now, if they aren't there already, haven't heard. So need another scratching rod anyway. Maybe another raptor?

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 Posted: Mon Dec 5th, 2016 06:03 pm
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A007M21
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Joined: Tue Feb 17th, 2015
Location: George, South Africa
Posts: 196
Equipment: Shimano Grinders & Blue Marlin Rods
Best Catch: GT
Favorite Fishing Spot: Anywhere that has water!
Boat: None
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Mana: 
I'm not sure how clued up Gremlins are with building grinder rod. Rather send the rod up to Mark Norval from Rod Worcs in PE or Craig Neil from CDS in Pretoria - these boys know how to build rods for grinder application! You can't just slap low riders or k-series guides on - they have very specific guide spacings and placement and should be fitted by those in the know. Bear in mind they don't come cheap but they will last you a life time if cared for

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 Posted: Mon Dec 5th, 2016 07:42 pm
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2Shad!
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Joined: Wed Mar 13th, 2013
Location: PORT SHEPSTONE, South Africa
Posts: 29
Equipment: Far too much of the wrong stuff. Changes all the ...
Best Catch: Steenbras 15kg
Favorite Fishing Spot: Pumula KZN
Boat: NONE
Club: NO
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Mana: 
Excellent advice! I agree.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 5th, 2016 10:31 pm
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Psy
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Joined: Tue Jun 3rd, 2008
Location: Langvlei Duine, Wildernis., South Africa
Posts: 6922
Equipment: Blue Marlin's/Assasins/Pentagons c/w Shimano's
Best Catch: All sorts
Favorite Fishing Spot: ><((((((ō>
Boat: ><((((((ō>
Club: <ō))))))><
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Mana: 
A007M21 wrote:
I'm not sure how clued up Gremlins are with building grinder rod. Rather send the rod up to Mark Norval from Rod Worcs in PE or Craig Neil from CDS in Pretoria - these boys know how to build rods for grinder application! You can't just slap low riders or k-series guides on - they have very specific guide spacings and placement and should be fitted by those in the know. Bear in mind they don't come cheap but they will last you a life time if cared for


Gremlins are well clued up with grinder rods and have been constructing rods for almost half a century.

Agreed CDS Angling and Rod Worx are also producing a great product with awesome detail.


::tight:

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 Posted: Tue Dec 6th, 2016 08:03 pm
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2Shad!
Member


Joined: Wed Mar 13th, 2013
Location: PORT SHEPSTONE, South Africa
Posts: 29
Equipment: Far too much of the wrong stuff. Changes all the ...
Best Catch: Steenbras 15kg
Favorite Fishing Spot: Pumula KZN
Boat: NONE
Club: NO
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Mana: 
Very sad. Took my Raptor to Robbie at Gremlins today to have some new guides and extension done. He is in a bad way. Just had major abdominal surgery and is very very sick. Didn't know what to say. He clearly is not casting straight. Needs some words of encouragement.

But thank you guys for all your trouble. I need to save some loot for a rod of my dreams! Will save all the info above.

May you all have lots of sardines!

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 Posted: Tue Dec 6th, 2016 08:29 pm
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Psy
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thats sad news, thanks for the info.

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 Posted: Tue Dec 6th, 2016 11:27 pm
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Enigma
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Joined: Mon Apr 27th, 2009
Location: Eldoraigne , South Africa
Posts: 12895
Equipment: Fishing Tackle and Lot's of IT
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Sad news re Rob.

As for Low Riders, K Series alconites etc etc.

Fuji is not just Fuji. There are over 20 styles of single foot guides, 40 styles of double foot guides, guides from R6 a guide up to R1800 a guide (Titanium Torzite RV #40)

Can't for the life of me understand the logic behind a 30cm butt section and 40cm grip above? Makes no sense but what the hell

The Loomis and Franklin 12' 2 piece T24 would be the perfect rod just upgrade the guides to fuji Double foot low on the rod and low frame single foots higher to stabilise the tip and provide sensitivity yet remain strong.

Alternatively Most light Carp rods will do the trick 100%

The 11' ShoreGame in grinder config or Shimano Forcemaster 12' will address your needs.

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 Posted: Tue Dec 6th, 2016 11:32 pm
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Enigma
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Joined: Mon Apr 27th, 2009
Location: Eldoraigne , South Africa
Posts: 12895
Equipment: Fishing Tackle and Lot's of IT
Best Catch: Anything with fins - from a 15gr 3 spot Barb ...
Favorite Fishing Spot: RSA
Boat: Na
Club: Northern Swerwers
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IWyk wrote:

11ft Sensation short range(1-4 Ounce) Old blank if you can get one ???????????????????????????????????


The new one is Black and no longer with gaudy white on it and it is the same BLANK.... 100% they changed the layout a bit so it feels different.

While we're on this I went and had a look at the 8' and 110H Exage's that everyone is saying are DIFFERENT..

Believe me with I compared the old and new Blanks (not the rods) The blanks are the same blanks from the same factories, someone however listened to to many COOKS and they SPOILED the Broth, changed guide sizes and number without considering the effect it had on the functioning of the RODS

The new 110H is from what I found and what was confirmed by the rod distributor, EXACTLY the same blank as was always used.....

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 Posted: Wed Dec 7th, 2016 07:40 am
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IWyk
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Joined: Tue Oct 28th, 2014
Location: Centurion & Hibberdene, South Africa
Posts: 1374
Equipment: Purglas 400/2, 400/4, 350/2, 12ft6 oval DC custom, 10ft6 oval ...
Best Catch: Raggie 220kg, Barbel 31kg, Catface 7.2kg, Zambies, Blacktip, Hammer
Favorite Fishing Spot: Lower South coast(Hibberdene to Port Edward), Vaal river
Boat: Ski Vee 500
Club: Hibberdene Ski Boat Club
Status: 
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Mana: 
Enigma wrote:
IWyk wrote:

11ft Sensation short range(1-4 Ounce) Old blank if you can get one ???????????????????????????????????


The new one is Black and no longer with gaudy white on it and it is the same BLANK.... 100% they changed the layout a bit so it feels different.

While we're on this I went and had a look at the 8' and 110H Exage's that everyone is saying are DIFFERENT..

Believe me with I compared the old and new Blanks (not the rods) The blanks are the same blanks from the same factories, someone however listened to to many COOKS and they SPOILED the Broth, changed guide sizes and number without considering the effect it had on the functioning of the RODS

The new 110H is from what I found and what was confirmed by the rod distributor, EXACTLY the same blank as was always used.....


Good to know the short range is using the same blank(before I bought mine the tackle shop said the new range will be coming out with a different blank). I got the old ones and the set-up seems perfect for scratching and I can also use them in the river for carp angling. Just had a look at the new ones and they actually look nicer than the old ones. (two here on classifieds).

As for the old Exage range, same blank or not I prefer the layout and action etc. of the old models.

With regards to the new Exage range. If they are the same blank is the new 110H available in spinning configuration or still only in casting?
Could make a nice heavier scratching rod for the bricks where long distance is not required.

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 Posted: Wed Dec 7th, 2016 10:00 am
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Enigma
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Joined: Mon Apr 27th, 2009
Location: Eldoraigne , South Africa
Posts: 12895
Equipment: Fishing Tackle and Lot's of IT
Best Catch: Anything with fins - from a 15gr 3 spot Barb ...
Favorite Fishing Spot: RSA
Boat: Na
Club: Northern Swerwers
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Yes they cocked up the Exage range listened to shop keepers and others for possible improvements but never realised the impact the changes would have on the rod action.

Only in casting but a quick chande to spinning is possible and that blank will cast 2-5oz and cast a 5oz easy 150m in the right hands

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 Posted: Wed Dec 7th, 2016 10:34 am
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IWyk
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Joined: Tue Oct 28th, 2014
Location: Centurion & Hibberdene, South Africa
Posts: 1374
Equipment: Purglas 400/2, 400/4, 350/2, 12ft6 oval DC custom, 10ft6 oval ...
Best Catch: Raggie 220kg, Barbel 31kg, Catface 7.2kg, Zambies, Blacktip, Hammer
Favorite Fishing Spot: Lower South coast(Hibberdene to Port Edward), Vaal river
Boat: Ski Vee 500
Club: Hibberdene Ski Boat Club
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Mana: 
:? I need to go for casting lessons.

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