oiling and magging
- Thread starter Raaneip
- Start date
Cuban Cigar
Sealiner
Raaneip wrote:
In this way, slack loose coils that end up as an overrun on crow's nest, are eliminated !
Feel free to request any additional info you might need !
Cheers !
_seal1_
The idea around removing grease from the spool bearings and oiling with a high quality oil like ReelX/CorrosionBlock ReelSpeed/Quantum Hot Sauce etc, is to help reduce the start-up inertia of the spool (getting it up to speed easy and quick)...after that, the Magnetic Cast Control System, is utilized to "balance" the max spool speed/rpm's, so that the spool only deliver the amount of line on freespool. that the sinker/bait combination, can keep on , taking away !
In this way, slack loose coils that end up as an overrun on crow's nest, are eliminated !
Feel free to request any additional info you might need !
Cheers !
_seal1_
Cuban Cigar
Sealiner
Pieter Immelman
Sealiner
Baie dankie Cuban Cigar.
The talicas are under control now.
The cuban hooks are impressive.
Anybody contemplating magging his reels, I can recommend Cuban Cigar as a very helpful person with lots of reel knowlege and an excellent product. Anybody who can diagnose and solve problems and issues via messaging is an expert in his field.
The talicas are under control now.
The cuban hooks are impressive.
Anybody contemplating magging his reels, I can recommend Cuban Cigar as a very helpful person with lots of reel knowlege and an excellent product. Anybody who can diagnose and solve problems and issues via messaging is an expert in his field.
I've had a Talica 25 and a Trini 30A done, each for different reasons.
The Talica is now a calm, easy casting reel, and the Trini I can finally cast without having to touch the line from time to time. I haven't actually measured distances yet, but just the ability to cast carefree at night is worth it.
The Talica is now a calm, easy casting reel, and the Trini I can finally cast without having to touch the line from time to time. I haven't actually measured distances yet, but just the ability to cast carefree at night is worth it.
All of my reels are magged now.
I can honestly say that I have played and tested just about everything in just about every condition encountered with the reels. If I can add some of my experience on problems with both grease and oil and the mechanics of it in the reels.
You welcome to correct me if it all sounds like.....bos.
Oil helps with the startup inertia....for sure.
What ive noticed is, oiled bearings do offer great benefits when using magged reels. Even with magged reels however, birdsnests are not just something of the past. I still throw many.....because of poorly laid line when reeling in.
However, most occur at the end of a cast. One of the biggest things to control with magged reels is slow moving momentum. The faster the spool turns, the more brake is generated. The slower, the less brake. Its almost impossible to make a soft short cast without thumbing your spool without an overwind.
So, I believe the oil, other than offering excellent properties, allow the spool to spin freely and faster allowing more control. Any sudden changes in spool speed....overwind.
Only downside of oil is you have to re oil more frequently.
Even on my newly acquired Trinidad 16 Dc, I changed out new bearings with new ceramics and oiled. You can immediately feel the difference and thats with one of the best magging systems out there.
I can honestly say that I have played and tested just about everything in just about every condition encountered with the reels. If I can add some of my experience on problems with both grease and oil and the mechanics of it in the reels.
You welcome to correct me if it all sounds like.....bos.
Oil helps with the startup inertia....for sure.
What ive noticed is, oiled bearings do offer great benefits when using magged reels. Even with magged reels however, birdsnests are not just something of the past. I still throw many.....because of poorly laid line when reeling in.
However, most occur at the end of a cast. One of the biggest things to control with magged reels is slow moving momentum. The faster the spool turns, the more brake is generated. The slower, the less brake. Its almost impossible to make a soft short cast without thumbing your spool without an overwind.
So, I believe the oil, other than offering excellent properties, allow the spool to spin freely and faster allowing more control. Any sudden changes in spool speed....overwind.
Only downside of oil is you have to re oil more frequently.
Even on my newly acquired Trinidad 16 Dc, I changed out new bearings with new ceramics and oiled. You can immediately feel the difference and thats with one of the best magging systems out there.
Pieter Immelman
Sealiner
Psy wrote:
Jip, maar net een.
Ek het nog net op die golfbaan getoets, nog nie by die see nie. Ek is nog besig om te eksperimenteer met die magnete(tuning)en voordat ek dit nie klaar gedoen het nie sal dit nie billik wees om my opinnie nou al te gee nie.
Ek het al van die magnete verwyder maar ek moet nog die oorblywende magnete uit skuif om die verlangde resultaat te kry.
Wanneer ek by die see kom en genoeg tyd het sal ek weer daaraan aandag gee. Om elke keer na die sinker toe te stap en hom opgrawe uit die gras uit maak jou sin op.
Grasse in die plaasdamme is net so 'n pyn.
Ek wag maar tot ek weer op die strand staan
Jip, maar net een.
Ek het nog net op die golfbaan getoets, nog nie by die see nie. Ek is nog besig om te eksperimenteer met die magnete(tuning)en voordat ek dit nie klaar gedoen het nie sal dit nie billik wees om my opinnie nou al te gee nie.
Ek het al van die magnete verwyder maar ek moet nog die oorblywende magnete uit skuif om die verlangde resultaat te kry.
Wanneer ek by die see kom en genoeg tyd het sal ek weer daaraan aandag gee. Om elke keer na die sinker toe te stap en hom opgrawe uit die gras uit maak jou sin op.
Grasse in die plaasdamme is net so 'n pyn.
Ek wag maar tot ek weer op die strand staan
Pieter Immelman
Sealiner
so, to kind of sum up.
oil in bearings reduces the initial inertia of the spool - thus more energy is spent spinning line of the reel.
less friction from the bearings due to thin oil and less energy wasted to overcoming inertia lets you attain a higher spool speed which causes more braking power from the secondary induced magnetic field.
almost a paradox - but i assume (putting makeup numbers to it):
if ghries gives you say max 100rpm with 10 units breaking power this might relate to 90m distance while thin oil might give you a max of 120rpm with 20 units breaking power which then relate to 96m distance and with more line control. hypothetically thinking.
the downside being that as the weight slows down at the end of the cast the breaking power might become to weak to slow the spool down enough as the weight looses speed and a bit of thumb control is needed to prevent it.
oil in bearings reduces the initial inertia of the spool - thus more energy is spent spinning line of the reel.
less friction from the bearings due to thin oil and less energy wasted to overcoming inertia lets you attain a higher spool speed which causes more braking power from the secondary induced magnetic field.
almost a paradox - but i assume (putting makeup numbers to it):
if ghries gives you say max 100rpm with 10 units breaking power this might relate to 90m distance while thin oil might give you a max of 120rpm with 20 units breaking power which then relate to 96m distance and with more line control. hypothetically thinking.
the downside being that as the weight slows down at the end of the cast the breaking power might become to weak to slow the spool down enough as the weight looses speed and a bit of thumb control is needed to prevent it.
Pieter Immelman
Sealiner
Just like you said.
The differences in greased bearings and oiled bearings are very small. You might not even notice it, but,
Packing a bearing full of grease yes, you feel it, but applying the correct amount correctly....not really. You just want enough to move through or coat the balls...film like.
Just like knots....some people say this knot is no good, but are the tying and tensioning the knot correctly?...hmmmmm.
Anyways, enjoy the mags....saves you line.
The differences in greased bearings and oiled bearings are very small. You might not even notice it, but,
Packing a bearing full of grease yes, you feel it, but applying the correct amount correctly....not really. You just want enough to move through or coat the balls...film like.
Just like knots....some people say this knot is no good, but are the tying and tensioning the knot correctly?...hmmmmm.
Anyways, enjoy the mags....saves you line.
kitefisher
Sealiner
Very informative post,Sealine is blessed to have abounding knowledge freely available.
For what it is worth.
If overwinds occur without fail at the end of the cast it can be remedied by using a slightly thicker oil in the bearings.This will aid the spool in slowing down incrementally as the eddie-current of the magnets start ''fading''.
Another ,perhaps less desirable option is to either have less line on the spool ( minus 50 meters can make a substantial difference),or to up the diameter from (for the sake of the explanation) ,from .45mm to .50mm.
In the case of upping the line diameter ,the net result is purely that after the cast the spool will become ''smaller''sooner due to the thicker line that has departed. This 'smaller' spool can thus throw less line per revolution than a spool of bigger circumference(more line left on it).In brief,the sinker continues to tow the line until touchdown, and therefor no overwind occurs due to excessive line leaving the spool as opposed to what the sinker can tow.
In the case of using thicker oil on shielded bearings, basically the following happens inside the bearing during the cast.
The centrifugal forces 'throws' the oil away from the ball-racers during the cast.Obviously the force is highest at optimum RPM,which is at the onset of the cast.(from the moment the sinker departs it cannot generate more speed as there is not any more energy applied).
As the spool starts loosing momentum, the oil starts ''seeping''back between the ball-racers(because of less centrifugal force) and thus starts slowing the bearing down,which in turn slows the spool down,and thus prevent excess line(more than the sinker wants)from leaving the spool.Hence no overwind at the end of the cast.
If shielded bearings are cleaned and lubed correctly,the oil will last surprisingly longer than one may think.(if not wading,(dunking) which may either wash out oil or negotiate the properties iro viscosity.
Grease,does not share the above properties with oil(although they are great for inhibiting rust).Magging a reel is a great way of spool control,and if you can combine it with some assistance from using oil,you will have the best of both worlds.
It is true that mags can be used without any assistance from oil-braking,such as in tournament casting reels with ceramic bearings and zero oil.However that is a very specialized application.
In my humble opinion the confidence of not fearing an overwind anymore, is also an added contributor to extra distance gained.
Net my 2 pennies .
::tight:
For what it is worth.
If overwinds occur without fail at the end of the cast it can be remedied by using a slightly thicker oil in the bearings.This will aid the spool in slowing down incrementally as the eddie-current of the magnets start ''fading''.
Another ,perhaps less desirable option is to either have less line on the spool ( minus 50 meters can make a substantial difference),or to up the diameter from (for the sake of the explanation) ,from .45mm to .50mm.
In the case of upping the line diameter ,the net result is purely that after the cast the spool will become ''smaller''sooner due to the thicker line that has departed. This 'smaller' spool can thus throw less line per revolution than a spool of bigger circumference(more line left on it).In brief,the sinker continues to tow the line until touchdown, and therefor no overwind occurs due to excessive line leaving the spool as opposed to what the sinker can tow.
In the case of using thicker oil on shielded bearings, basically the following happens inside the bearing during the cast.
The centrifugal forces 'throws' the oil away from the ball-racers during the cast.Obviously the force is highest at optimum RPM,which is at the onset of the cast.(from the moment the sinker departs it cannot generate more speed as there is not any more energy applied).
As the spool starts loosing momentum, the oil starts ''seeping''back between the ball-racers(because of less centrifugal force) and thus starts slowing the bearing down,which in turn slows the spool down,and thus prevent excess line(more than the sinker wants)from leaving the spool.Hence no overwind at the end of the cast.
If shielded bearings are cleaned and lubed correctly,the oil will last surprisingly longer than one may think.(if not wading,(dunking) which may either wash out oil or negotiate the properties iro viscosity.
Grease,does not share the above properties with oil(although they are great for inhibiting rust).Magging a reel is a great way of spool control,and if you can combine it with some assistance from using oil,you will have the best of both worlds.
It is true that mags can be used without any assistance from oil-braking,such as in tournament casting reels with ceramic bearings and zero oil.However that is a very specialized application.
In my humble opinion the confidence of not fearing an overwind anymore, is also an added contributor to extra distance gained.
Net my 2 pennies .
::tight:
Pieter Immelman
Sealiner
kitefisher wrote:
Eish, wie sou kon dink dat soveel insig nou uit die Vrystaat kan kom.
Die opmerkings oor lyn dikte en volheid van die spoel verruim my insigte. Alhoewel ek die invloed van lyn dikte en volheid van die spoel se invloed op die afstand wat jy gooi verstaan het, het ek dit nog nie in verband gebring met daardie laaste paar drade nie.
Baie dankie daarvoor.
Sal nou weer vir die Ceatas skree as hulle teen die Bulle speel
Eish, wie sou kon dink dat soveel insig nou uit die Vrystaat kan kom.
Die opmerkings oor lyn dikte en volheid van die spoel verruim my insigte. Alhoewel ek die invloed van lyn dikte en volheid van die spoel se invloed op die afstand wat jy gooi verstaan het, het ek dit nog nie in verband gebring met daardie laaste paar drade nie.
Baie dankie daarvoor.
Sal nou weer vir die Ceatas skree as hulle teen die Bulle speel
kitefisher
Sealiner
''''Eish, wie sou kon dink dat soveel insig nou uit die Vrystaat kan kom.
Die opmerkings oor lyn dikte en volheid van die spoel verruim my insigte. Alhoewel ek die invloed van lyn dikte en volheid van die spoel se invloed op die afstand wat jy gooi verstaan het, het ek dit nog nie in verband gebring met daardie laaste paar drade nie.''''
Baie dankie daarvoor.
Pieter,dit is soms moeilik om sekere insigte akkuraat in woorde te omskep,maar ek is bly jy het net n halwe woord nodig.hahaha. Die aanwending van olie in bearings, in samewerking met magnete moet nie geringskat word nie. 3-4 druppels dikker olie het nie n wesenlike impak op die afstand van n gooi nie,maar dit kan wel n beduidende impak hê op die beheer van die spoel-spoed aan die einde van n gooi.
Eksperimenteer gerus met n druppel of 3 EP90 wat n dikkerige olie is.Ons hengel-katrolle se spoel en lyn gewig is heelwat swaarder as die Europese lande s'n waarvoor dunner olies soos Rocket-fuels en Hot-Sauce ens suksesvol is vir reeds gemelde aanwendings.
Baie manne staar hulle blind teen spoel-spoed (oftewel die tyd wat n spoel vrylik loop deur dit vinnig met die hand te draai) .Dit is nie die alfa en omega van hoe ver die betrokke katrol sal werp nie.Beheer van die spoel deur magnete en olie is die optimum. Briekskoene kan ook met sukses aangewend word,selfs in kombinasie met beide voorafgenoemde metodes,maar dis n onderwerp(wetenskap) op sy eie.
p.s In die vervloë dae was die Vrystaters heelwaarskynlik van die land se beste Vêrgooiers(huidige SA-Kampioen is n toevallig n Vrystater) .Ongelukkig gaan (het reeds) baie van die kennis verlore.Hengel en Vêrgooi/(Tournament Casting) is redelik ver verwyderd,maar is daar tog sekere beginsels wat simbioties is.
Cheers
Die opmerkings oor lyn dikte en volheid van die spoel verruim my insigte. Alhoewel ek die invloed van lyn dikte en volheid van die spoel se invloed op die afstand wat jy gooi verstaan het, het ek dit nog nie in verband gebring met daardie laaste paar drade nie.''''
Baie dankie daarvoor.
Pieter,dit is soms moeilik om sekere insigte akkuraat in woorde te omskep,maar ek is bly jy het net n halwe woord nodig.hahaha. Die aanwending van olie in bearings, in samewerking met magnete moet nie geringskat word nie. 3-4 druppels dikker olie het nie n wesenlike impak op die afstand van n gooi nie,maar dit kan wel n beduidende impak hê op die beheer van die spoel-spoed aan die einde van n gooi.
Eksperimenteer gerus met n druppel of 3 EP90 wat n dikkerige olie is.Ons hengel-katrolle se spoel en lyn gewig is heelwat swaarder as die Europese lande s'n waarvoor dunner olies soos Rocket-fuels en Hot-Sauce ens suksesvol is vir reeds gemelde aanwendings.
Baie manne staar hulle blind teen spoel-spoed (oftewel die tyd wat n spoel vrylik loop deur dit vinnig met die hand te draai) .Dit is nie die alfa en omega van hoe ver die betrokke katrol sal werp nie.Beheer van die spoel deur magnete en olie is die optimum. Briekskoene kan ook met sukses aangewend word,selfs in kombinasie met beide voorafgenoemde metodes,maar dis n onderwerp(wetenskap) op sy eie.
p.s In die vervloë dae was die Vrystaters heelwaarskynlik van die land se beste Vêrgooiers(huidige SA-Kampioen is n toevallig n Vrystater) .Ongelukkig gaan (het reeds) baie van die kennis verlore.Hengel en Vêrgooi/(Tournament Casting) is redelik ver verwyderd,maar is daar tog sekere beginsels wat simbioties is.
Cheers
Cuban Cigar
Sealiner
Some rather interesting timing .....
Just last night, I had a little Penn Torque X100 with external slider adjustment on the factory fitted magnetic cast control system, to check out.
The owner asked me to speed up the reel if possible, as it was too slow for his liking, even on the "FAST" setting of the adjustment slider.
On closer inspection, I found a few marks/burrs around the pinion shaft and spool shaft,removed & polished it, but although the spool ran faster, it needed some more help...
The grease was then completely removed from all three spool bearings and substituted with CorrosionBlock ReelFast and voila ... it ran "like on batteries"
The reel ended up with a more realistic range of adjustability and you can now set it with the slide, from a about a 8 second freespool spintime, right up to a point, where it is WAY TOO FAST and all the practical settings in between .... in this case, oil i.s.o. grease, was the answer ...
Normally, the smaller reels with smaller/lighter spools, can do with a thinner/faster oil, than their larger counterparts .... as the centrifugal forces generated are a lot less !
Without adjusting a reel, spin it with an empty, then a half full and then with a full spool and see, just how much faster/longer it runs, as the spool gets filled ...
This is the same reason, why we easily control the spool speed of a Talica 25II 2-Speed lever drag reel during flight, but why it is still tricky to stop that heavy spool by thumb, spinning so fast on it's three bearings, when the sinker hits the water .....
Small/light spools are just so much easier to control !
A few pics will follow !
Cheers and _seal1_ !
Just last night, I had a little Penn Torque X100 with external slider adjustment on the factory fitted magnetic cast control system, to check out.
The owner asked me to speed up the reel if possible, as it was too slow for his liking, even on the "FAST" setting of the adjustment slider.
On closer inspection, I found a few marks/burrs around the pinion shaft and spool shaft,removed & polished it, but although the spool ran faster, it needed some more help...
The grease was then completely removed from all three spool bearings and substituted with CorrosionBlock ReelFast and voila ... it ran "like on batteries"
The reel ended up with a more realistic range of adjustability and you can now set it with the slide, from a about a 8 second freespool spintime, right up to a point, where it is WAY TOO FAST and all the practical settings in between .... in this case, oil i.s.o. grease, was the answer ...
Normally, the smaller reels with smaller/lighter spools, can do with a thinner/faster oil, than their larger counterparts .... as the centrifugal forces generated are a lot less !
Without adjusting a reel, spin it with an empty, then a half full and then with a full spool and see, just how much faster/longer it runs, as the spool gets filled ...
This is the same reason, why we easily control the spool speed of a Talica 25II 2-Speed lever drag reel during flight, but why it is still tricky to stop that heavy spool by thumb, spinning so fast on it's three bearings, when the sinker hits the water .....
Small/light spools are just so much easier to control !
A few pics will follow !
Cheers and _seal1_ !